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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#703 of 791 Re: You're a silly guy [gagrice]
Feb 17, 2010 (7:21 pm)
"Where is Ralph Nader when you really need him."
The answer is found at this analysis of Prius fatal accidents 2001-2007:
Now I understand that TDI advocates believe the handling is very important:
The ability to spin wheels, generating clouds of smoke, noise and disabling
traction control seems an important 'feature' of TDI vehicles. Regardless,
you seem interested in the 2010 Prius brake recall, A0B.
This is what the Prius brake pause looked like before the fix:
This is what it looked like afterwards:
You'll notice the brake was quite effective after the speed bump.
Toyota's fix works and deployment is such that you can't buy a
2010 Prius from a dealer today without A0B, the patch.
But since you mentioned test driving a TDI, I think I'll wait for the next
drizzle day and using the same accelerometer, go looking for some speed
bumps. Yes indeed, it is time to measure TDI braking performance. As you
might guess, I have no problem filing an NHTSA report on defective
TDI braking ... now that we know what to look for.
#704 of 791 Re: You're a silly guy [bwilson4web]
Feb 17, 2010 (7:59 pm)
Thanks for presenting the facts. I presented them earlier, without the technical detail, but that was ignored. Constant mis-statements about the braking software problem on the Prius don't serve any useful purpose. It would be like you or me making post after post about the transmissions in TDIs blowing up on the road, causing a menace both to the driver and to anyone in the vicinity (as the parts are ejected from the transmission at fatal velocities).
Of course, that is totally untrue. As is what some people are posting here about the Prius' braking problem.
#705 of 791 Bottom line the Golf is safer than the Prius
Feb 17, 2010 (9:24 pm)
All the made up statistics in the World do NOT change the facts. If you want a safe handling and stopping car. The Golf will outperform ANY Prius on the road. And the IIHS a respected testing source rates the Golf in the top five in it class which includes the Prius. The Prius did not even make the top ten. In fact NO Toyotas in the top 10. So gloat and be smug. You are not as safe in a Prius as a Golf. And neither is even close to the Sequoia. If a few pennies worth of gas saved is more important than your family. It is your choice.
By the way your deaths per 100 million miles study is reminiscent of the recent AGW IPCC reports. Take an agenda and adjust the data to give the desired end result. Far from scientific. Funny when it comes to NHTSA data that is negative toward the Prius it is not useful or is flawed. I guess it kept you busy for a couple hours making graphs and adjusting figures. Very laughable.
#706 of 791 Re: Bottom line the Golf is safer than the Prius [gagrice]
Feb 18, 2010 (5:09 am)
More mis-information. The only reason the 2010 Prius is not rated amongst the IIHS "top picks" is because the car has not yet been tested for rollover. That is as of this year part of the criterion for being a "top pick". Why not wait until the IIHS has completed its tests on the Prius before you start laughing?
#707 of 791 Re: Bottom line the Prius is cheaper to insure [gagrice]
Feb 18, 2010 (5:23 am)
"And the IIHS a respected testing source rates ... "
Their result is available here:
They state for the 2010 Prius,
"Frontal offset test results - Good"
"Side impact test results - Good"
"Rear protection - Good"
"Good" is the highest rating they give in their testing. It is impossible to exceed the IIS "Good" rating.
You also mentioned:
". . . a few pennies worth of gas saved . . . "
The EPA site shows:
$1217 - Jetta TDI 2010 expected fuel costs
$0783 - Prius 2010 expected fuel costs
- - - - -
$ 434 -- is a little more than "a few pennies" but closer to a car payment
You mentioned, "IIHS" Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. So I went to Progressive and entered a 2010 Prius and 2010 Golf. They quoted online:
$18 - $27 - Comprehensive Coverage
$123 - $140 - Collision Coverage
$22 - $22 - Rental Car
$0 - $0 - Roadside Assistance
$6 - $7 - Loan/Lease Payoff
The 2010 Prius came in cheaper than the 2010 Golf. It is interesting how this insurance company provides a lower price to the Prius. I listed both the 2010 Prius and 2010 Golf in the same request for a quote.
#708 of 791 Re: Bottom line the Prius is cheaper to insure [bwilson4web]
Feb 18, 2010 (6:15 am)
Better get some roadside coverage for your Prius. One poster found out the hard way that Toyota does not provide roadside assistance on the 2010 Prius. Too many to tow in I would guess.
So lets see how they stack up for insurance:
Prius insurance = $228 with AAA roadside $59
Golf Insurance = $196 VW will tow in the unlikely chance you need it.
We will take your skewed economy numbers just for chuckles. So you save $434 a year in fuel cost with the Prius. A comparable Prius to the Golf TDI comparing amenities would be about $2900 more for the Prius and it does not include a sun roof. Add a sun roof and you are at about $4000 more for the Prius than a Golf TDI. Take off for the extra interest on the additional $4000 and the additional Insurance for towing and it leaves you with about $100 to the good on fuel. Of course that gets more than eaten up by the $4000 premium you paid for the Prius so there is no way with the short "end of life" you projected for the Prius in your study to ever be a better deal than the Golf TDI. Add to that living with a numb handling, poor braking, uncomfortable, noisy car for 5 or 6 years and you are going to be swearing at Mr Toyoda like millions of other folks are right now.
Thanks for offering me the opportunity to shoot holes in your incomplete facts.
#709 of 791 will a single Prius fan testdrive any 2010 TDI? Or vice versa? Ever?
Feb 18, 2010 (8:45 am)
We remain "all talk no action!"
WIth all the time to post on the web, at least one TDI fan must have time to go testdrive a 2010 Prius and then file 14 NHTSA complaints.
And Bob W you seem to have a bunch of time - live a little and get out there and flog a TDI during a testdrive, and then call ABC news & LA times and file the NHTSA complaints!
#710 of 791 Maintenance Cost Re: [bwilson4web]
Feb 18, 2010 (8:56 am)
How does the cost of maintenance on the Prius compare to Golf TDI?
Maintenance is included for 3 years 36,000 miles on the Golf TDI.
#711 of 791 Re: Prius vs TDI mileage numbers, Edmunds [gagrice]
Feb 18, 2010 (12:35 pm)
". . . your skewed economy numbers . . . "
The source is the EPA web site, www.fueleconomy.gov. But since you
seem interested in my numbers, let's start with the Edmunds mileage
numbers for urban travel.
Most of my travel is in Huntsville and though I'm getting closer to
52 MPG, I don't have any TDI numbers. So we'll borrow the Edmunds
48 MPG - NHW20 Prius urban
32 MPG - Jetta TDI
We typically drive 20,000 miles per year, mostly urban, but we cruise
on the highway at speeds that typically provide similar mileage.
20000 / 48 ~= 417 gallons
20000 / 32 ~= 625 gallons
- - - -
208 gallons, extra diesel bought
Using $2.50/gallon for diesel:
$520 per year - more than one car payment per year
". . . you are going to be swearing . . . "
We bought our first Prius in 2005. Four years later, we bought our second one. Repeat customers, we are quite happy. Gawd d*mn happy.
#712 of 791 Re: can't rent a TDI? Or vice versa? Ever? [elias]
Feb 18, 2010 (1:08 pm)
". . . TDI during a testdrive"
Actually I want to rent a TDI for 2-3 days. Know of anyone?
They need to be within say 150 miles of Huntsville AL and I would have no
problem with driving over and renting one for a weekend.
I've already visited the local VW dealer and sat in a Jetta TDI. That is how
I found out about the driver side door jam blocking my view to the left lane.
Seriously, I'll rent a TDI if we can find one for rent ... anywhere within a two
hour drive. Perhaps you know a TDI owners in Huntsville AL who would
agree to a vehicle swap, after handling the insurance issues, for a weekend?