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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#666 of 791 Re: rehashing reliability is old-hat [backy]
Feb 15, 2010 (2:24 pm)
Hmm. Let us hook up the equivalent weight to the 2010 Prius and then see what happens. But then again, I do not know anyone who commutes in a Kenworth, Freightliner or Volvo truck.
So Toyota gave the gas engine 22 more HP and 23 more lb-ft of torque. They raped the electric side dropping torque by 142 lb-ft to 153 lb-ft versus 295 lb-ft for the 2007 - 2009. I do not think that the larger gas engine will help.
#667 of 791 Re: rehashing reliability is old-hat [gagrice]
Feb 15, 2010 (2:36 pm)
Read my post again. I'm not saying anything about the drivability of the TDI. I am trying to keep the discussion on topic, which is a discussion of the 2010 Prius and 2010 Golf TDI. So when folks talk about other cars, including earlier designs of the Prius or TDI, or even Jeeps, I don't see how it's relevant.
The 2010 Prius has considerably more power and torque than previous generations, so I don't think it's fair to draw a conclusion on how the car takes a grade based on the earlier designs.
#669 of 791 Re: Impressions from actually driving the 2010 Prius [backy]
Feb 15, 2010 (3:01 pm)
The story did not mention the brakes. Must have used a grappling hook to stop the car.
#670 of 791 Re: Impressions from actually driving the 2010 Prius [winter2]
Feb 15, 2010 (3:27 pm)
The grappling hook is not included in the package this driver reported on, so he had to use the usual way--brakes.
#671 of 791 Re: Impressions from actually driving the 2010 Prius [winter2]
Feb 15, 2010 (5:23 pm)
The brakes only fail at the worst time. On Icy or slick surfaces. Not likely to happen in Tucson. The reviewer had good things to say about the Prius. Just not that he would want one. I have recommended them. I would not want one.
I do think a person can get a good deal while Toyota is down and out. Don't expect the resale to be good for at least 5 years after their debacle. Too bad it did not happen to VW, BMW or Audi. I might be buying a new vehicle.
#672 of 791 Re: rehashing reliability is old-hat [winter2]
Feb 15, 2010 (6:25 pm)
I agree with this:
"The Pruis that I saw were not 2010 but 2008 and 2008 models"
The 1.5L Prius or at least our 2003 Prius, can maintain 65 mph up an 8% grade but anything over or an extra heavy load and it could dip into and run out of traction battery power. In these cases, I recommend using 55 mph or just follow any semi-trailer truck up the climb lane. It saves fuel and gets there with minimal stress on the car.
#673 of 791 Re: rehashing reliability is old-hat [winter2]
Feb 15, 2010 (7:20 pm)
"Let us hook up the equivalent weight to the 2010 Prius and then see what happens. But then again, I do not know anyone who commutes in a Kenworth, Freightliner or Volvo truck."
The technical term is power-to-weight ratio and that pretty well defines hill climbing performance for any vehicle ... even a diesel.
You also mentioned:
"So Toyota gave the gas engine 22 more HP and 23 more lb-ft of torque. They [reduced] the electric side dropping torque by 142 lb-ft to 153 lb-ft versus 295 lb-ft for the 2007 - 2009. I do not think that the larger gas engine will help."
Whole vehicle performance includes the transmission and the 2010 Prius (ZVW30) transmission has internally geared electric motors. This allows the motors to spin faster and via the gearing produce more torque to the drive train. The gearing also reduced the size of the motors and transmission volume and weight. Like the earlier 2004-09 Prius (NHW20), the absence of shift points means the engine and electric system can operate at peak efficiency points over a very wide range of power and speeds.
Our family has both a 2003 (NHW11) and ZVW30 Prius. So whole vehicle performance is important for trip planning and efficient driving and my studies include:
level, mph vs MPG - optimum cruise speeds
climb, mph vs fuel - optimum climb speeds
temp vs MPG - dealing with weather
Now there have been a few snippets of honest, head-to-head vehicle performance. Edmunds did that with some of their reports and collecting sources:
#674 of 791 Re: REAL-WORLD DATA [backy]
Feb 16, 2010 (12:54 pm)
Amazing how the Prius could be so gosh-darned unreliable yet be one of the top 5 most reliable cars as of spring 2009 per CR's surveys. Also the "most satisfying" car to own per those same surveys. Also the best for used-car reliability.
I notice how you left out the 2009 MY. Was that because there were only 137 complaints that year? You also left out the first two years of the Gen 2 Prius history; each of those years had fewer than 500 complaints.
Should we talk about all the Golfs and Rabbits recalled by the NHTSA over the past few years? Looks like it was pretty much ALL of them, from 1999-2008.
Update: Interesting (and telling?) comment from one of the NHTSA complaints for the 2010 Prius: "I DIDN'T THINK TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS BEFORE I BEGAN HEARING THE NEWS."
Well, having a lot of problems reported for 4 out of 5 most recent Prius models should raise red flags if you're in love with Prius I am not disputing your facts about unreliability of VWs, I am talking about recent years and Prius' unreliability compared to Jetta TDIs. ALso, cars CAN be unreliable even if they were not recalled such as Prius models in 2006, 2007, and 2008 and that's GEN 2 vehicles of Prius. YIPPIE if first 2 years GEN 2 vehicles had less than 500 complaints./ Still does not indicate ANY poor reliablity in GEN 2 vehicles after 2005. According to NHTSA website on Prius complaints, the drivers are more likely to report ACTUAL PROBLEMS than " I DIDN'T THINK TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS BEFORE I BEGAN HEARING THE NEWS." Also, your claim that Prius is one of the most reliable cars according to a survey did not take into account who did participated and which years of Prius were involved. They probably did not survey many 2006, 2007 and 2008 Prius owners. That survey was at one point in time. The complaints on NHTSA explains drivers experiences THROUGHOUT their ownership of the vehicle, WELL past the reliability survey you claimed. By the way, 2009 Prius complaits are near 180 as of today and Prius 2010 is reaching 1500.
#675 of 791 Re: rehashing reliability is old-hat [bwilson4web]
Feb 16, 2010 (12:58 pm)
Some years ago when Toyota brought out the Camry Hybrid a car magazine tested the Camry against an E-Class MB diesel. One of the tests consisted of a climb of Pike's Peak. The Camry did not do well as the traction battery pack died before the half way point. The MB also got better FE during the climb too. I remembered this story last night and for the life of me cannot remember the name of the magazine I saw it in.
During open road driving, highway cruising, the diesel beat the Camry Hybrid but around town in stop and go, the Hybrid did better.