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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#593 of 791 Re: REAL-WORLD DATA [backy]
Feb 08, 2010 (8:08 pm)
So, you've driven the 2010 Prius with the braking s/w update applied?
Not even on my radar. I rode a lot with a preacher friend I recommended getting a Prius. It was a 2009 and rough riding noisy and just nothing I could consider. The only reason I would buy the Golf TDI is for running errands and back country drives. I sat in a GTI and liked the seats. I hate our Lexus LS400 as it is a big strain on my back getting out. I like a vehicle with some ground clearance and easy entry and exit. Cars generally are not comfortable to me.
By the way I doubt any of the Prius with the updates have been sold. It was not added in the factory until late January. If Toyota is telling the truth. I see reports on the 2010 Prius brakes as early as July 2nd 09. 300,000 vehicles and 7 months to figure it out.
#594 of 791 Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t
Feb 09, 2010 (1:42 am)
The NHTSA publishes an annual "Relative Collision Insurance Cost Information Booklet" with the latest being 2009. It reports the relative insurance costs and finds:
103 - Prius Hybrid
110 - Jetta
Looks like the Jetta costs more to insure.
The EPA maintains a fuel efficiency web site that individual users can record their mileage and we find:
40.1 MPG (27 vehicles) - 2009 Jetta TDI diesel, automatic, compact car
46.5 MPG (115 vehicles) - 2008 Toyota Prius, automatic, midsize car
49.0 MPG (70 vehicles) - 2010 Toyota Prius, automatic, midsize car
So the Prius remains the most affordable to drive, especially in urban areas with more interior space than the Jetta TDI compact car. Note, these are user mileage reports, not the formal EPA testing. So far, the 2010 Prius is the most fuel efficient.
About the brake pause, I was able to capture one event last week after trying for nearly 6 weeks. It is rare, only 50% of Prius owners report experiencing it. In the 2010 owners, only 20% consider it severe. However, most agree that as rare as it is, many times it can not be replicated at will, stepping harder on the brake pedal stops the car RIGHT NOW!
In the case I captured, it happened at a speed of less than 25 mph after a speed bump in light rain. The pause was 700-800 milliseconds and other than feeling like the typical "slip n slide" we have with Huntsville streets when it rains, it was unremarkable. This was the first and only experience I've had since May 2009 and like I said, it was unremarkable.
I understand there may be other requirements for vehicle ownership not having to do with vehicle space, insurance and fuel costs. But I could not afford to drive a Jetta in the urban routes that my wife and I have to deal with. Nor could we tolerate the limited interior space. As for insurance costs, the Prius is more affordable as of 2009. We also like the quiet interior that is all but free of engine noise. But these may not be of any value to a Jetta owner and I am good with that.
BTW, we analyzed the Prius fatal accident rate, 2001-07, and found it was less than half that of the USA fleet average. I have no idea where the Jetta stands but the 2010 Prius did receive very high marks in the European safety scores.
Now I'm a Greenback dollar "green" guy so I really don't care about the California Air Resources Board ranking of the Jetta TDI vs Prius. However, the CARB data shows the Prius to be 2-5 times less polluting than the Jetta TDI. It doesn't matter in Alabama because we don't emissions test our vehicles.
#595 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [bwilson4web]
Feb 09, 2010 (5:50 am)
If your driving is mostly Urban the Prius is a good choice. I have recommended the car for that demographic. I would slit my wrists if I had to face an urban commute every day. It is bad enough the one or two times per week I leave the sanctity of my home to travel down into the suburbs. I really want more than either the Prius or Golf has to offer. The Golf would satisfy the fun factor for me. Not worth $25k just to sit in the garage for my pleasure. Your cost analysis did leave out purchase price. Not sure what that would be now. Before all the recalls last year, the average Prius on the lot in San Diego was just shy of $30k before tax and title.
I found your "Relative Collision Insurance Cost Information Booklet" online and just checking. If you are concerned about insurance cost you would get a big SUV. If you will take a look my Sequoia gets a "31" compared to the Prius "103". Yes it is cheaper to get complete coverage on a $51k Sequoia than a $30k Prius. And the Rabbit which is the Golf, that this thread is comparing gets a "106". I was shocked when my 05 Passat Wagon "87" insurance was higher than my 05 GMC Sierra PU. Then my 07 Sequoia came in even less than the PU truck. Telling me I am driving one of the safest vehicles on the road. It uses a bit more gas, but the safety is worth it.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Vehicle%20Safety/Articles/Associated%- - 20Files/2009_Insurance_Costs_Comparison.pdf
Speaking of fuel costs. We took a 5700 mile trip in the Sequoia last fall. From SD to South Dakota over to Minnesota down to Indiana back to New Mexico and home. Total fuel cost $759.06. Try getting a plane ticket to all those places for two people that cheap. We had plenty of room for all our stuff. The safest vehicle on the road and no fatigue from being stuck in a little econobox all day long. Cost of fuel is way down my list of importance.
#596 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [gagrice]
Feb 09, 2010 (8:40 am)
"Speaking of fuel costs. We took a 5700 mile trip in the Sequoia last fall. From SD to South Dakota over to Minnesota down to Indiana back to New Mexico and home. Total fuel cost $759.06. Try getting a plane ticket to all those places for two people that cheap. We had plenty of room for all our stuff. The safest vehicle on the road and no fatigue from being stuck in a little econobox all day long. Cost of fuel is way down my list of importance."
I'm a great believer in getting the right tool for the right job. Sometimes that is a honkin' big SUV or even an RV. Other times, it is fuel efficient urban vehicle. Some road warriors may be better served by something else. It really comes down to a question of individual requirements.
#597 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [bwilson4web]
Feb 09, 2010 (8:52 am)
Intellichoice 5 year ownership cost 2010 Prius compared to 2009 Jetta TDI Sedan DSG
Prius $25,393 Jetta $25,396
2010 Golf and 2010 Jetta do not list ownership cost yet on Intellichoice.
Jetta is $3 more.
Factor in the $1300 Tax Credit and the Jetta has lower cost.
Factor in the fact that VW TDI's have a real world higher retained value and VW TDI is lower cost of ownership.
Factor in the free 3 years maintenance and VW TDI is lower cost.
I, like Edmunds, Autoweek, Automobile Magazine, Car and Driver and Motorweek prefer the superior handling and superior interior of the VW Jetta to the Prius.
Golf TDI interior and handling are even better than the Jetta, so it is reasonable to expect it to be reviewed as well as or better than the Jetta TDI.
For those enthusiasts among us that prefer to shift their own gears, TDI is offered with 6 speed manual transmission or 6 speed dual clutch auto/manual DSG transmission. Prius is not an option for manual transmission.
Prius is the best appliance for highest mpg.
Golf TDI is the best choice for smiles per mpg.
#599 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [moparbad]
Feb 09, 2010 (10:49 am)
Between the two cars, yes. (Although saving gas can be smile-inducing!) But as R&T found, a less expensive choice like the Fiesta might fit the bill better than the Golf TDI, if TCO is a factor. Not much FE difference but a huge difference in up-front cost.
#600 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [moparbad]
Feb 09, 2010 (11:24 am)
"Prius is the best appliance for highest mpg.
Golf TDI is the best choice for smiles per mpg. "
I tend to smile at the gas pump ... a lot.
#601 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [gagrice]
Feb 09, 2010 (1:53 pm)
gagrice, did you also consider the total cost of running the vehicle for 5700 miles - which was probably $3000 at a minimum. That's getting closer to the price for a couple of plane tickets, eh!?
(Even when air travel is less expensive, I prefer to drive, if I have the right TDI vehicle and the time, and a road to travel.)
#602 of 791 Re: Insurance Co$t, Fuel Co$t [elias]
Feb 09, 2010 (2:07 pm)
If you are looking at Total Cost of Ownership that might be a low figure at 52 cents per mile. However most of those costs are there whether I leave it at home or drive it. I would have preferred a smaller SUV if it gets exceptional mileage. The Audi A4 comes with the 2.0L TDI in the rest of the World. In the Allroad version I would have pared down my stuff to fit. I am thinking no one will ever offer a great mileage CUV or SUV I like. Same goes for a small PU with diesel.