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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#554 of 791 Re: November poll - voting results are in [bwilson4web]
Dec 14, 2009 (4:30 pm)
We had XM in our 2005 GMC PU and enjoyed the Classical stations and the Christmas stations. If our Toyota CD player was able to play without skipping I would have been fine without XM. I took it into the dealer we bought it from and they said it tested OK. We did not use it until we got a new album and first time we tried it the thing it stuck and the NAV locked open. Then it took 4 weeks to get a new unit as it came from India. All under warranty. But we did not have the use of the NAV or radio for weeks. The Bose in our GMC was head and shoulders above the top of the line unit in our Sequoia Limited. Toyota is not top of the line anything. And I find the comparison between the Golf TDI and Prius laughable. The Prius has two slight advantages. Storage and city mileage. I know if you ever drove a VW TDI you would be trying to unload your Prii.
#555 of 791 Re: November poll - voting results are in [gagrice]
Dec 14, 2009 (9:38 pm)
"The Prius has two slight advantages. Storage and city mileage."
Since October 2005, we've driven over 70,000 miles at over 52 MPG, our 1.5L, 2003 Prius. It has more than met expectations and remains my primary commuting car. It also has the 1 kW inverter used for emergency power a couple of times per year and a 2" receiver for towing the trailer to carry oversized loads like lumber. It is our Jetta sized sedan with 52 MPG mileage and materially improved our quality of life.
For the past six months, we put 7,000 miles on our second, 1.8L, 2010 Prius. It too is running over 52 MPG with more interior space and better high speed, highway and city mileage than a Jetta TDI. The 2010 Prius is used for weekends and errands and fills a role no Jetta TDI could hope to meet at 52 MPG. It is my wife's car so we are a two Prius family.
Eventually the 2010 Prius will get a receiver for towing and possibly a more powerful A/C inverter. It may also get a battery pack for extended electric operation. At ~$.80/gal. equivalent electrical cost, this will further reduce our transportation cost. This is an area where the Jetta TDI does not compete.
". . . if you ever drove a VW TDI you would be trying to unload . . ."
My wife and I prefer to go flying for fun.
#556 of 791 dirty diesel owners, safely sooty a Prius traffic-impeder today!
Dec 15, 2009 (5:12 am)
Bob W, could you pick up the pace a little bit, maybe a bit more detail and verbosity and justification of the wonderfulness of your two-Prius experience?
Your posts have reminded me to provide a pulse of diesel soot after passing one of the "Pulse and Glide Traffic-Impeding Prius People".
I definitely concur with the repeated points about how the Prius excels when it is stationary/parked. But those "paperweight" functionalities are nowhere in my top requirements for a car.
Personally I think the difference between 45 & 55 mpg is trivial when considered in cost-per mile, but many folks do get quite excited about it.
Would bo5th TDI or Prius owners do well to consider that the idea of always striving to reduce one's transportation cost may have already run into the law of diminishing marginal returns, considering we are already driving ~50 mpg cars?
I've thought positively about hybrids, but after riding in a Prius I would never consider one. For my tastes, Prius is an incredibly awful riding/handling vehicle, right out of the showroom. Civic hybrid was not much better. I have hopes for the new Honda Insight however and would like to test one.
#557 of 791 Re: dirty diesel owners, safely sooty a Prius traffic-impeder today! [elias]
Dec 15, 2009 (6:54 am)
". . . passing one of the "Pulse and Glide Traffic-Impeding Prius People". "
They irritate me too. Fortunately, we don't have any in Huntsville AL.
". . . nowhere in my top requirements for a car."
Nor should it. This is why this long running thread in the Prius forum makes no sense except for amusement. The earnestness of the TDI advocates is only exceeded by their limited but growing understanding that others may have a different set of requirements.
". . . paperweight functions . . ."
The 1 kW inverter and emergency power means we don't have to 'curse the darkness.' The vehicle provides a return on investment even when sitting in the driveway. Eventually, I hope to go full, co-generation powered by natural gas providing both house heat and power. It is another area where the TDI will never hope to achieve.
". . . the difference between 45 & 55 mpg is trivial . . . "
The average NHW11 owner is getting 45 MPG and the ZVW30, 2010 Prius, is getting 50 MPG. But the 2010 Prius has a lot more space and the 1.8L engine gives it better high speed, highway and hill climbing performance. It is a better car. BTW, the 2010 Prius steering has more caster.
BTW, I note the average TDI owner is reporting 40 MPG in www.fueleconomy.gov. So there you have:
40 MPG - TDI owners
45 MPG - NHW11 owners (personal 52 MPG)
50 MPG - ZVW30 owners (personal 52 MPG)
As for my 52 MPG in the NHW11, I simply choose to drive Prius friendly routes and pay attention to vehicle warm-up. The ZVW30, 2010 Prius, has removed those limitations.
" . . . For my tastes, Prius is an incredibly awful riding/handling vehicle . . ."
Correct! Others have different 'tastes'.
I found the 2010 Prius tracks better than our 2003 Prius. However, I've also found long distance travel in our older, 2003 Prius is not nearly as fatiguing as our earlier, non-hybrid vehicles. The 2003 Prius doesn't have the fatiguing noise and vibration so driving 14 or more hours in a day is entirely practical with just ordinary breaks. I have done two, 24 hour trips in the 2003 Prius only possible because it doesn't 'beat me up.' The ZVW30, 2010 Prius is even better but I don't expect others to share my taste in vehicles or driving.
The one problem with the 2010 Prius is my wife drives with a lead foot. She had the car up to 93 mph and I didn't notice it until I looked at the GSP speed. Our non-Prius cars complained a lot at speeds over 90 mph and became uncomfortable. The 2010 handles it quietly and smoothly ... even on Tennessee roads.
Still, this thread remains and TDI advocates continue to make themselves available for conversion ... or at least getting a clue. It isn't as if Prius advocates have to hang out in TDI forums ... a behavior that has a name. I suspect there are many fine GM and Chrysler forums that need the 'TDI good news.'
#558 of 791 Re: dirty diesel owners, safely sooty a Prius traffic-impeder today! [bwilson4web]
Dec 15, 2009 (7:24 am)
It isn't as if Prius advocates have to hang out in TDI forums ... a behavior that has a name.
Ah, but you are wrong. I have been on the diesel and TDI forum since 1998 and from the first Prius entering this country we have had TDI envy posters making snide remarks and posting inaccurate data about diesel cars. And if you noticed this thread is a Prius vs Golf TDI. Which, if you were not aware, the Golf TDI beat out the 2010 Prius as "Green Car of the Year". It was also picked as the World Car of the Year over the Prius. The Prius appeals to a small segment of the World's population, mostly in high mileage deprived USA. There are dozens of diesel cars in the World that get better than 52 MPG. You just cannot buy one here in the Land of the Free.
#559 of 791 Re: November poll - voting results are in [gagrice]
Dec 15, 2009 (4:36 pm)
" . . . posting inaccurate data about diesel cars . . . "
Well that was rude. Were any of them Prius advocates or just the usual net detritis?
" . . . if you were not aware . . . "
Perhaps you were not aware of November car sales:
- Prius sales exceeded VW TDI sales 3x
- Toyota hybrid sales exceeded VW TDI sales 4x
- All hybrid sales exceeded VW TDI sales by 5x
The voters used $24-$30,000 ballots. The December voting has already started.
". . . dozens of diesel cars . . . get better than 52 MPG . . ."
Which one is the full size, Prius sized version that does 52 MPG in the City?
#560 of 791 Let's not start this again
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
Dec 15, 2009 (4:52 pm)
Comparison of the cars in the title is fine, but please let's not turn this into "hybrid vs diesel" which has ended badly in several discussions.
I understand that passions on both sides run high, but this discussion is supposed to be for those folks who might be trying to decide between the two vehicles, not a place to "prove" anything.
Thanks for your cooperation and participation!
Dec 15, 2009 (8:32 pm)
If you do not like the factory Navi system in your Toyota, next time buy one without it. I have an 07 Maxima with factory Navi that I do not like as much as my $300 portable unit I use in my 07 Prius. A less user friendly factory Navi system in a vehicle does not make the entire vehicle bad or the company bad.
My brother-in-law live in PA and have an 06 Sienna with navigation that he just paid $200 6 months ago to update his navigation DVD.
I myself would not buy an unreliable car because they provide the greatest navigation system on the market.
I like both hybrid and diesel cars. You do not have to put hybrid down because you like diesel vehicles. Either vehicles would reduce our energy consumption and dependence on the middle east.
#562 of 791 Re: Gagrice [avucarguy]
Dec 15, 2009 (8:39 pm)
I was making a point about the cheap electronics sold in Toyota vehicles. That of course does not have much to do with hybrids or diesels. When you buy a vehicle and find the one you want, if it has NAV which was not a high priority for me, you expect it to work well. It was a poor substitute for a AAA map from the get go. My biggest gripe at the time was being lied to by the dealer. They assured me I could get an XM receiver that would integrate with their NAV. After the papers are signed and the check is handed to them we find out that it is not available with the top of the LINE Sequoia. So yes I have lots to complain about with Toyota.
And the good side. I do like driving the Sequoia. It handles nicely for its size. If it had a diesel engine I would consider putting in decent electronics and keeping it.
Dec 15, 2009 (10:33 pm)
I don't like the Navi in my Maxima that much either, but I like the rest of the car. In today's market, I think we would all be better off with a portable navigation system. At about 2K is too much to pay for a factory Navi system.
Unfortunately some of car salesmen are not too honest, they will bend the truth to make a sale. There are also good car salesmen also. You need to get everything down in writing before signing the contract.
On another subject, I would love to see diesel cars + truck to be offered by the Japanese and Korean companies. The less fuel we burn, the longer the oil supply will last for all of us. Also less pollution. Enjoy your Sequoia.