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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI - READ ONLY

791 messages,  Last post on Feb 28, 2010 at 9:19 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan

Messages Page 52 of 80

#504 of 791 Re: wow [gagrice] by backy

Sep 26, 2009 (6:26 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 24, 2009 8:40 pm)
I would not hold my breath for Toyota to offer a Plug-in hybrid.
 
No need to...

Toyota will unveil its long anticipated plug-in hybrid Prius at the Frankfurt Motor Show. In early 2010, over 500 Prius PHEVs will be leased to fleet customers in Japan, the United States, and Europe. These pre-production cars will let Toyota evaluate their performance in a real-world environment before full-scale production starts. Retail sales are planned for 2012.
 
http://www.greencar.com/articles/toyota-unveil-lithium-ion-powered-prius-plug-hy- brid.php
 
And here's the report from Frankfurt:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/21/frankfurt-2009-2010-toyota-prius-plug-in-hybr- id-cant-get-any-g/
 
Since I will be buying my next car in late 2012, then replace our minivan in 2013, this is great timing for me. I'll probably wait for the minivan replacement to go for the Prius. Maybe a Golf in 2012, depending on how my Rabbit holds up before then.

#505 of 791 Re: wow [backy] by gagrice

Sep 26, 2009 (8:37 am)

Replying to: backy (Sep 26, 2009 6:26 am)
Seeing is believing. The PHEV Prius were supposed to be out in late 2008 on the market. They had test models in 2006. I don't think Li-Ion is ready for mainstream yet.
 
Just how new is Toyota's plug-in Prius? Maybe older than we think
This Friday, Toyota will deliver two plug-in Priuses to UC Davis for testing purposes. We've known about Toyota's PHEV Prius plan for a while now (the official announcement came back in July), but one of our clever readers, Joseph, submitted a tip that explains that perhaps the plug-in Prius has been in the works for six months, maybe even a year, before the July public acknowledgment. I'll let him explain:
 
The PHEV Prius prototypes from Toyota were revealed on July 25, 2007.
 
http://green.autoblog.com/2007/11/07/just-how-new-is-toyotas-plug-in-prius-maybe- -older-than-we-thin/

#506 of 791 Re: wow [backy] by gagrice

Sep 26, 2009 (8:56 am)

Replying to: backy (Sep 26, 2009 6:26 am)
Another thing to think about. The Tax credit for EV or PHEV is based on the capacity of the battery. Volt was designed to get the maximum credit or maybe the other way around. The Prius PHEV will have less than a third the capacity of the Volt making the tax credit much less. Of course the batteries will also be less.
 
The PHEV Prius can operate in electric-only mode for about 12 miles at speeds up to 60 mph or so. This is about seven miles more than the current non-PHEV Prius. Apparently, this battery capacity was sized for European rather than American commuting habits. According to Toyota’s research, in the UK about 80 percent of trips are less than 6 miles and in France this number is 15 miles. For American commuters, the typically used all-electric commuting number is a much more demanding 40 miles, which is the all-electric capability of the Chevrolet Volt.
 
The Senate bill would give buyers a base-line credit of $2,500 for buying a vehicle powered by a 4-kilowatt hour battery. An additional $417 would be added for each KWh of battery power beyond that up to a total limit of $7,500.
 
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/24/autos/plug-in_tax_credit/index.htm?section=money- _autos

#507 of 791 Re: wow [gagrice] by backy

Sep 26, 2009 (9:59 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 26, 2009 8:37 am)
I don't think Li-Ion is ready for mainstream yet.
 
Obviously neither does Toyota. That's why they're doing field testing of 500 cars before they ramp up for production in 2012. What's your rush? Can't wait to buy one of those PHEV Priuses?
 
One of the best attributes of the Prius is its reliability. Why would Toyota want to jeopardize that by rushing new technology to market?

#508 of 791 Re: wow [gagrice] by backy

Sep 26, 2009 (10:01 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 26, 2009 8:56 am)
How big is the traction battery on the Golf TDI, and what is its tax credit? In other words... why is this an issue?
 
A lot of trips in our household are less than 12 miles roundtrip, at city speeds (much less than 60 mph), so that will compute to, what kind of mpg do you think? Pretty high I'd say.

#509 of 791 Re: Golf prices [gagrice] by bwilson4web

Sep 27, 2009 (5:59 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2009 8:39 am)
"Golf 4-door TDI 2.0L 140 hp Six-speed automatic DSG® with Tiptronic® $ 23,889"
34 mpg EPA composite rating
 
Prius 4-door 1.8L 134 hp CVT automatic $22,000 - www.toyota.com
50 mpg EPA composite rating
 
Consumer Reports defined a $/mpg as a way to rate the cost for any given mileage. So this allows us to use the listed prices by both VW and Toyota along with the EPA mileage to calculate the $/mpg:
 
$23,889 / 34 mpg = $702.62 / MPG - Golf dollars per mpg
$22,000 / 50 mpg = $440.00 / MPG - Prius dollars per mpg
 
Ok, what would be the price of an equivalent Prius using the Golf dollars per mpg:
 
$702.62 * 50 mpg = $35,131 - Prius priced at the same Golf dollars per mpg
 
So we have this range of Prius prices, $22,000 to $35,131, to compare the 4-door, automatic transmissions and similar displacement engines.
 
Bob Wilson

#510 of 791 Re: Golf prices [bwilson4web] by gagrice

Sep 27, 2009 (6:41 am)

Replying to: bwilson4web (Sep 27, 2009 5:59 am)
I am not sure where you live. In CA the average 2010 Prius is over $29k. The dealer with the largest inventory only had 3 Prius out of 14 under $29k. Making your calculation more like $580 per MPG. Again the Prius may be the mileage champ and have a bit more storage space than the Golf. When you look at the list I do the Prius still comes up short on what is most important to me.
VW Golf ahead in the following list:
Handling
braking
safety
wind bucking
ride
ergonomics
quality of materials
 
Not to mention the fact that Toyota uses insulation in the Prius wiring that seems to attract rats and mice. Another dirty little secret.
 
Rats love Prius wiring

#511 of 791 Re: Golf prices [gagrice] by bwilson4web

Sep 27, 2009 (10:01 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 27, 2009 6:41 am)
"I am not sure where you live," doesn't matter as the car market place is larger than just the nearest car dealership. We both have access to the same manufacturer's list prices and another, nation wide, public market place, Ebay:
 
Price - Ebay item - vehicle
$22,950 - 350251239669 - 2010 Prius
$25,297 - 360191062085 - 2010 Jetta TDI
 
I bought our first Prius in 2005 through Ebay and flew to Fort Worth Texas to drive it back. A used, 2003 Prius, I got it for $1,000 under Kelly Blue Book value and added 70,000 miles at over 52 MPG.
 
When I bought my wife's new 2010 Prius, it was a special offer and I was able to select my dealership. I choose the highest ranked dealership in North Alabama even though it is 45 miles away and I have been pleased with their service.
 
Costco has a car buying service and it includes the Prius. This means we can actually shop ... we have options. Heck, even Edmunds, our host, has a car location service.
 
Bob Wilson

#512 of 791 Re: Golf prices [gagrice] by backy

Sep 27, 2009 (10:06 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 27, 2009 6:41 am)
The 2010 Prius is an IIHS Top Safety Pick. The 2010 Golf hasn't been tested by the IIHS yet, or at least the results were not announced. But the 2009 Jetta was a Top Safety Pick so it's likely the 2010 Golf will be also.
 
Have you driven the 2010 Golf and Prius back-to-back to compare the ride, wind bucking, ergonomics etc.? I haven't, so I haven't made any conclusions yet on how the two cars compare in those areas.
 
As for rats chewing wiring in a Prius... rats and mice chew wires, and lots of other stuff. That behavior is not restricted to the Prius. I suppose next you are going to try to make some link between the Prius and H1N1.
 
http://askville.amazon.com/mice-chew-electrical-wires/DiscussionBoard.do?request- Id=8003348&page=1

#513 of 791 Prius prices increasing by moparbad

Sep 27, 2009 (3:45 pm)

No Base Model Prius for consumers
 
qutoe-
The Prius gets a $400 price increase, starting October 18. The base model of the popular hybrid will now be sold in limited quantities to fleet buyers only. The lowest-end Prius available to the general public will cost $23,150. The top model will be priced at $28,420. -end

Messages Page 52 of 80

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