Last post on Feb 28, 2010 at 8:19 AM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hybrids Host for directions! discussion.
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#50 of 791 Re: Anecdotal Experience [dewey]
Aug 13, 2009 (7:29 am)
Is there a way to quantify obnoxious because if there is you win the prize based on your recent posts poohpoohing every fact presented by a forum member here. Untrustworthy, hearsay? Have you ever heard of JD Powers and Consumers Report and did you ever notice the stellar rankings of most VWs? Naah, I didn't think so!
Obnoxious is anecdotal postings of "my BMW is crap and all BMW's are crap because I had a problem with a BMW, stay away from BMW lemons" type of material that you and others post without any type of objectivity.
You have not posted one relevant quantifiable fact about reliability of Prius or TDI.
JD Power data has shown that the difference between Toyota reliability and VW is 1.3 problems per vehicle.
Consumer Reports has listed both Jetta and Golf TDI as recommended and same with Prius. CR has listed reliability of Jetta TDI as better than average.
Using "suck" and "lemon" and "humungous" (LOL, y'all use sophisticated words) is colorful though completely lacking any value other than entertainment.
If someone is considering a purchase of a vehicle and they are concerned about reliability, they want to know how many and what type of problems would be expected.
For example, a 2001 Golf TDI had known problems with window regulators and MAF sensors, both of which are corrected with revised components and both of which were covered by VW even after warranty as they recognized the problem.
#51 of 791 Re: Anecdotal Experience [moparbad]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Aug 13, 2009 (7:41 am)
Personally-directed comments have no place in our Forums. Get rid of them, starting now.
#52 of 791 Edmunds take on 2010 Prius and 2009 TDI
Aug 13, 2009 (7:58 am)
From the Fuel Sipper Smackdown
The big news is that the 2010 Toyota Prius (base price $22,000) secures a straight sweep by achieving essentially the same fuel economy regardless of driving environment. Conventional wisdom used to be that the Prius was good for city dwellers and that frequent road trippers should look elsewhere. These results would prove otherwise, and the new Prius proved to be a better long-distance car than before, with a bit more power and a more comfortable cabin.
The 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI ($22,270) proved the promise of clean diesel technology. While not delivering the best gas mileage or the lowest price, the Jetta is better equipped than the hybrids' base models and feels the most like a normal car. With fewer costly technologies onboard, there are also fewer costly technologies to fix or replace in the long term. Of course, the fluctuating cost of diesel fuel is something to consider
This was the Jetta that was tested, the Golf TDI will arrive on your shores in the near future and it is next generation platform compared to 2009 Jetta.
#53 of 791 Re: Anecdotal Experience [moparbad]
Aug 13, 2009 (10:12 am)
Ok I will spare you my colorful language about cars but at least my colorful language is not directed towards people.
I never said all BMWs were unreliable? Those were my own personal experiences with my very own car I guess you were a bit confused.
So here's the colorless facts:
The Prius has stronger reliability ratings than a VW TDI. "Better than average VW TDI results" does not equate to Prius reliability. In fact there is not a single VW that has the reliability of a Prius. Not one! Overall VWs are ranked among the last in most reliability surveys.Those are the facts.
Oh and by the way if you find everybody's experiences with their own cars useless than why are you here? My suggestion is that you focus on CR and JD Power surveys and then who knows by next week you will have a Prius in your garage.
Anyways you do sound like a very happy person and I salute you for your love of diesels. My car love is directed towards my amazing 2010 Prius and I am incredibly ecstatic(pardon my colorful language).
At least we are two happy people. What's there to argue about.
And please pardon those colorful icons above.
#55 of 791 Re: Anecdotal Experience [dewey]
Aug 13, 2009 (10:55 am)
When you state that Prius has better reliability than TDI, what is the difference in reliability?
Will the Prius have 1 problem per 100 vehicles and the TDI have 1.00000000000001 problem per 100 vehicles?
I'm not a CR subscriber and circles that are half full or half empty don't mean much to me in terms of data.
Buick (Buick and Jaguar tied for No. 1 in 2009 JD Power vehicle dependability) is rated higher in reliability than Toyota, yet that would not be sufficient reason to buy a Buick or Jaguar.
My point is this, the gap between 1st and last for reliability has diminished so greatly in recent years that there is a statistically small difference in reliability. Buy the vehicle that meets your needs and makes you happy.
VW has higher predicted residual value than Toyota as a brand. Both TDI and Prius are among the highest predicted retained values as individual models.
Prius obtains better mpg than TDI. That is understood.
TDI is much more comfortable and fun to drive than Prius IMO.
#56 of 791 Re: Anecdotal Experience [moparbad]
Aug 13, 2009 (4:41 pm)
I for one am looking forward to the roll out of the GTD either the 2010/2011. Initial indications are $18,000. Till that time the only thing that is close and might be off topic is the 2009 Jetta TDI. While we get 39-45 mpg, that has been in break in mode .
In some respects the engines (Prius/TDI) are not in the ball park. As such, the reality is more like comparing mpg. That being true a more apples to apples comparison is a Camry/Accord V6 # ft 254 19/29/22 against the 2009 Jetta TDI 2.0, # ft of torque 236 29/40/ 37.
When I got the 2003 Jetta TDI, I actually looked at both the 2003 Prius and 2004 Civic hybrid. Fuel mileage was better 35/44/42 03 TDI, although my ranges have been 48-52 vs 03 Prius of 42/41/41. I got neither hybrid as they would NOT deal at all. In fact in terms of price the real competition is the Toyota Corolla/Honda Civic.
Looking forward the anomalies continue to exist in the the 2010/2010 Golf TDI will be the sports version (GTI) vs the 2010 Prius which is not even in the same league as the Camry V6.
I am glad to see however that Prius after many years of good advertising about 50 mpg is actually getting 50 mpg. Seems there were a fair number of very dissatisfied Prius owners. But with the new "cooked" EPA numbers which favor the Prius and improvements to the current model Prius there is less rancor within the Prius ranks.
Incidently the 2009 (less than 9k) , 2003 (121k) Jetta TDI's have been literally flawless as has been the 2004 (90k) Honda Civic, we got in lieu of either the Prius, Civic hybrid. However I am guessing that will not go unvilified.
#57 of 791 The Saga Continues
Aug 16, 2009 (1:33 pm)
Well... I for one do not have a "chip" on my shoulder because of the issues if had with VWs and Audis. It is a shame the such a nicely made vehicle (their interiors are among the best in the business) can have so many issues. I certainly would consider one down the road when I have seen that their reliability has improved. For now, I'll keep away.
On a lighter note, I just passed the 70,000 mile mark on my 2004 Prius and I just averaged 51.3 on the most recent tankful of gas. I can't think too far ahead but it looks as though a new Prius (2015 model) may be in my driveway
Dewey.. so sorry to hear that you've had problems with your Bimmer. I know they can be quite expensive to repair. That is why you can get a 3 yr old 7 series for less than half of what it was priced when new. My friend recently sold his six year old 3 series because of the thousands in maintenance he was spending on a low mileage out of warranty vehicle. He ended up buying a Camry.
I still love the fact that I can glide in traffic without my engine idling. These days I seem to be doing lots of city driving and the TDI would never get the type of mileage I get in the city. Oh.. anyone hear that there is only a 13 day supply of the new 2010 Prius? They can't keep 'em on the ground... talk about selling like hotcakes!!! Whew!!
#58 of 791 Re: The Saga Continues [jpeters1970]
Aug 16, 2009 (3:48 pm)
anyone hear that there is only a 13 day supply of the new 2010 Prius? They can't keep 'em on the ground... talk about selling like hotcakes!!! Whew!!
Seems like a lot to me with the C4C program emptying the Ford lots of Escapes, Focus and Fusions. There are a lot more 2010 Prius available in San Diego than VW TDIs. The TDIs pretty much sell off of the truck. Can't wait to test drive the Golf TDI. If there is any clunker cash left I may trade in my Ranger on one. Only car I would consider at this time. Don't need it, just be handy for running errands. Diesel still cheaper here than RUG. RUG $2.99 D2 $2.89.
#59 of 791 Re: The Saga Continues [gagrice]
Aug 16, 2009 (11:27 pm)
Get back to me in the winter when diesel will be going up again. Last year the price difference was quite large (almost 80cents more per gallon). OUCH!!! There are so few TDIs that it is no surprise that they're being snatched up quickly. They are a very rare thing to see on this side of the country (right coast). I wonder if that's because they're on the lifts in the repair department
RE: Running errands in a brand new diesel? Makes no sense. Keep the Ranger or buy a Ford Focus. Cheaper in the long run.