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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI - READ ONLY

791 messages,  Last post on Feb 28, 2010 at 9:19 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan

Messages Page 45 of 80

#434 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [ruking1] by backy

Sep 18, 2009 (5:52 pm)

Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 18, 2009 4:51 pm)
Let's see, I tell you Golf's are made in Wolfsburg Germany and have no economic reason to be made in TN and out of left field, you are asking where I see Golf's will be made in TN??? Ah,... no !!??
 
Call me crazy, but I was just thinking that, this being a Golf vs. Prius discussion and all, that your comments about the TN plant might have something to do with the Golf. Obviously they don't.
 
Nor do your comment about the Tundra, putting another plant in the Fremont, CA, area, and Toyota's potential for financial losses.
 
But tell me... why is it OK with you for VW to decide not build Golfs in its TN plant to meet the strong demand (gagrice keeps reminding us that they are selling so fast there's none to be found in his area), when it's a big problem for you that Toyota has decided to delay completion of its Tupelo plant until 2011--which btw is the same time the VW plant in TN is scheduled to start making cars (but not Golfs)? You say VW has "no economic reason" to build Golfs in TN. Don't you suppose the reason Toyota is delaying building Priuses in Tupelo is because they have no economic reason to do it earlier?
 
This incredible bias in favor of VW and against Toyota is so blatant, it's actually funny.

#435 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [backy] by ruking1

Sep 18, 2009 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: backy (Sep 18, 2009 5:52 pm)
Whether you realize it or not you are coming closer to realizing what I am trying to say. You either do not see it yet or are still in denial.
 
Again you are the one claiming the Prius sales are good at a quoted MINUS-21% !!??? It is not I. I am also saying that TO MO CO is greatly scaling back its Prius capacity (by not loading its MS plant) as well as many other product lines with less mpg. Indeed if it LOADED its MS plant it would need to manufacture a minimum of 80% of the plants capacity to B/E. So using 400,000 units (of the closing NUMMI plant) 80% of that would be 320,000 units. Now you were saying Prius sales is at the lofty MY sales of 100,000 units? They decided to close the Toyota/GM Numm plant because it was operating at 65%.Right now without the GM portion it is operating at 50% and BLEEDING $'s hand over fist. And you think 25% capacity is...viable and the slam dunk indicator I am BIASED !!???
 
Again Golf's are not direct competitor's of Prius's. In case you did not get it , the VW TN plant at full capacity will be 800,000 units, while TOMOCO has CUT least 500,000 units !!? If this is confusing, it is another reason why I left off the expansion of the VW Mexico plant, which among other things makes the Jetta.
 
So is it bias? Ah no !!! Funny? When you start to see the TOMOCO ripple effects, it is close to devasting and sad
 
But CA's business policies are so toxic, that even world class manufacturing corporations like TOMOCO can't afford to do business here !!??

#436 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [backy] by gagrice

Sep 18, 2009 (7:53 pm)

Replying to: backy (Sep 18, 2009 5:52 pm)
I think you are trying to play verbal games which is fine. But I don't see any data that says Toyota will build anything in their Tupelo plant in 2011. All I see is it is on hold.
 
June 10, 2009
Toyota broke ground on the $1.3 billion Tupelo plant in 2006 to produce Highlander crossovers. Last summer the automaker delayed the project and then later changed plans to produce the Prius there instead. But last December, Toyota halted the project indefinitely, opting to finish construction of the building shell and wait for market conditions to improve.
 
Why should it make any difference where the Golf is built? VW has much bigger plans for the US market than just the Golf. Hopefully all models will be offered with diesel engines.
 
If Toyota was truly optimistic about the Prius sales they should have made room in one of their many plants that are running far below capacity. Such as San Antonio. Their 250k Tundra sales will be lucky to hit 50% of projection. That leaves a lot of room to build a lot more Prius. I think they cut the Prius too close to make a profit building them in the USA. Much the same as the D3's failure to be competitive with small cars built here. VW is wise to build the bigger stuff here and bring the small ones from Mexico.

#437 of 791 potential ripoff-base price at dealer about 2k over edmunds by wpease

Sep 18, 2009 (8:05 pm)

Got the options and a trade in for about 29700.
I just left a credit card deposit.
It was a Prius 111 and i was given a sticker which showed MSRP base 25800 and the nav pkg with a few mats etc type accessories 2289
 
Edmunds shows base as 23500.
 
Dont sticker prices have to reflect the accurate Toyota base price?
Then added my 95 honda for allegedly a 1000 dollars tradein.
And they 'let me have it for 29000,
 
I didnt sign any buyer's agreement yet though as it was to be done Monday. If it was a ripoff can i still back out?
 
thanks
W

#438 of 791 Re: potential ripoff-base price at dealer about 2k over edmunds [wpease] by gagrice

Sep 18, 2009 (8:14 pm)

Replying to: wpease (Sep 18, 2009 8:05 pm)
I would email all the dealers for a direct quote. Some dealers are computer literate others are not. That seems pretty high for a model 3 Prius. They are flying high right now with the sales boom they had with C4C. You may want to wait until they get hungry around November. For me anything over invoice is a rip-off. I would wait till the market is in favor of the buyers again.

#439 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [ruking1] by backy

Sep 18, 2009 (8:16 pm)

Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 18, 2009 6:04 pm)
Thank you. Thank you very much. I enjoyed that a lot. Great way to end the day.

#440 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [gagrice] by backy

Sep 18, 2009 (8:29 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 18, 2009 7:53 pm)
According to Japan’s Nikkei, Toyota has put its U.S. Prius production plans on hold. The most popular hybrid in the world was slated to begin production in Mississippi in 2010, but those plans have now been pushed back to 2011 at the earliest.
 
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-delays-us-prius-production-plans.html
 
Why should it make any difference where the Golf is built?
 
It doesn't in general. The only thing about where the Golf is built that is relevant is, the level of quality of the plant. Otherwise, who cares except people who have a thing about buying a car not "made in the USA". Since only one of my cars was, and that's a Mazda, it doesn't matter to me. But it seemed there was a LOT of emphasis placed by some folks here on Priuses not made in the USA, Corolla factories closing, etc.
 
If Toyota was truly optimistic about the Prius sales they should have made room in one of their many plants that are running far below capacity.
 
The way I see it, if Toyota were truly optimistic about Prius sales, they would built a new plant for them. Which was the plan, before the auto market collapsed late last year. So they now have a partially-completed plant in MS that can still build Priuses when sales support it.
 
Anyway, since it doesn't make any difference where the Golf is built, it doesn't make any difference where the Prius is built, does it now?

#441 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [backy] by gagrice

Sep 18, 2009 (8:51 pm)

Replying to: backy (Sep 18, 2009 8:29 pm)
Anyway, since it doesn't make any difference where the Golf is built, it doesn't make any difference where the Prius is built, does it now?
 
Not to me it doesn't. I am thinking the Golf will be built in the EU for a while anyway. My point has always been that the Prius cannot be built in the USA due to pollution in manufacturing certain components. Many Prius drivers only care about tailpipe emissions. That is a small part of an automobiles pollution on the planet. Just because the batteries and motors are built in a third world country does not release them from guilt in my mind. The NoX, SoX and PM produced by the Prius in MFG far exceeds the non hybrid counterpart according to Toyota. The emissions only equals out at near end of life of the vehicles. On Particulate Matter the Golf will never be as polluting as the Prius.

#442 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [backy] by ruking1

Sep 19, 2009 (8:48 am)

Replying to: backy (Sep 18, 2009 8:16 pm)
.."Thank you. Thank you very much. I enjoyed that a lot. Great way to end the day. "...
 
I am no automotive pundit, but a consumer like you and most other interested car "nuts".
 
If I were to try to do a "lessons" learned on the Prius hybrid /Golf TDI comparo, it would be to quantify and qualify what a buyer's needs/wants/desires are.
 
The good news is that you can compare almost dissimilar products for a host of reasons. The bad news is you can compare almost dissimilar products for a host of reasons. The easiest would be to do comparos on similar products. I would also submit the oems do not make that an easy job most times.

#443 of 791 Re: C4C's impact on diesel sales [gagrice] by backy

Sep 19, 2009 (1:10 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Sep 18, 2009 8:51 pm)
My point has always been that the Prius cannot be built in the USA due to pollution in manufacturing certain components.
 
Then that was a really stupid thing Toyota did, planning and even starting that plant in Tupelo, MS, USA to build Priuses, wasn't it? To construct a factory to build cars that cannot be built there--that seems really strange, don't you think?
 
As for environmental impact, here's some data from the EPA. Feel free to provide your own data from an independent source comparing the 2010 Prius and 2010 Golf TDI:
 
Stat: Prius / Golf
 
Fuel Economy Combined: 50 / 34
Real-world Average FE: 51.7 / NA
Annual fuel cost: $774 / $1160
Annual petroleum consumption: 6.9 barrels / 11.9 barrels
Annual CO2 (tons): 3.7 / 6.2
EPA size class: midsized / compact
 
These figures are based on the defaults on www.fueleconomy.gov. It's possible to adjust things like fuel costs and miles driven to get numbers that reflect individual cases.
 
Do you have figures for particulate emissions for the 2010 Prius and 2010 Golf TDI? Also, do you happen to have a link to the report that shows the manufacture of the Prius generates more NoX, SoX, and PM far exceeds that of the Golf TDI?

Messages Page 45 of 80

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