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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#298 of 791 Re: Stale News [gagrice]
Sep 12, 2009 (8:40 am)
Folks like dewey and John1701a probably finds counterpoints absolutely galling !! I am sure they would support the concept of an ANTI diesel CZAR !?
The edmunds.com piece indicates there might be an app $7,000 premium over the Jetta TDI (certainly there is a range).
2.93 (current diesel prices vs RUG 3.07) , that $7k premium would buy 2,389 gals of D2 fuel, or 40 mpg, 95,563 miles more.
Since the (TBD) 2010/2011 Golf is a less pricey variant over the Jetta and the MSRP and invoice pricing are yet to hit the data files, there are probably even more premium differences between Golf 's and 2010 Prius'es.
Further, you would think that Toyota would engineer ( later gen) Prius'es to have much better handling and durability of wear able parts than it already does.
But the counterpoint: if the customer base is just fine with lousy sub par handling and low durability performance..., why bother? (and they haven't)
This might be a tad TOO technical or TMI (too much information) , but Toyo won a portion of the lowest bidder contract to provide so called "lower rolling resistance" tires for the 2010 Prius.
Upshot: I would be interested in how many miles the oem Toyo Prius tires will do (from real users like...John1701a.)
Through a lot of research for replacement tires for the TDI, Toyo seems to have done a great job in price/performance parameters and seems to offer great oem replacement tires that are better than.... oem. Time/mileage will tell whether or not it will match or exceed the TDI oem tires's of 112,300 miles or.... NOT. So far , except for new tires break in , I have not experienced a hit in mpg. Indeed the mpg is the best that it has ever been.
#299 of 791 diesel vs. hybrid-diesel
Sep 12, 2009 (10:12 am)
It's blatant misrepresentation like that which causes the problem.
In short: NON-HYBRID diesel
There's nothing wrong with diesel when used in a clean & efficient manner.
But certain people absolutely insist that's not the case. They continue to claim that hybrid supporters only want gas and will argue against anything diesel. That just plain is not true.
We've seen PZEV prototypes of diesel vehicles. We know how efficient hybrids are. Why some automakers refuse to deliver either is no reason to misrepresent those who endorse the next-generation products.
Face it, traditional (engine-only) technology cannot deliver both our efficiency & emissions needs. Adding an electric motor is required.
#300 of 791 Re: diesel vs. hybrid-diesel [john1701a]
Sep 12, 2009 (10:28 am)
..."They continue to claim that hybrid supporters only want gas and will argue against anything diesel. That just plain is not true. "
Indeed, I am not against hybrids or gassers, but you knew that and ignore that to make false syllogisms..
In your false syllogism, the facts are still 97% passenger vehicle fleet RUG to PUG and LESS than 1% passenger diesel (75% of 3% diesel are light truck diesels). Of the 97% RUG to PUG app 2% are 100 % gasser/hybrid. There are no E85 ethanol/hybrids. So if you count the 2% hybrid passenger vehicle fleet starting with the 2003 Prius or 5.114 M vehicles (.00333% per year) to get to 12% SUV population) or 30.684 M vehicles , current growth rate will take app 36 years.........This is with a PRO HYBRID attitude. With a less than 1% passenger diesel population it would be hard to conclude the policy and attitude has been PRO diesel. Indeed anti diesel as been the rule.
Diesels continue to offer a cost effective alternative to the gasser hybrid and to the gassers only.
This is purely an op/ed, but it would seem that no good deeds go unpunished. For as the population of Prius' grow in places like LA LA land, where by far has the greatest population of hybrids.. the warnings are ever more about the quality of air getting ever worse.
#301 of 791 Re: Stale News [gagrice]
Sep 12, 2009 (12:10 pm)
.You are making a claim that cannot be confirmed in the platform for the Camry being the basis for the Prius. Probably the closest match in the Toyota lineup would be the Matrix and the Prius
How can you criticize a claim that is posted everywhere and is in itself a fact.
Why dont you Google" MC platform" which happens to be the platform of the current Toyota Camry and Toyota Prius .
How can you say this is not confirmed?
How can you make arguments against a car when you dont even know what it really is.
The new Prius is essentially the same size as its predecessor, although it is based on the Toyota MC platform, which is used for vehicles including the current Camry.
Sep 12, 2009 (12:16 pm)
sport package Run Flat 18 inch tires go for about Canadian $800(with taxes in Ontario)
Sorry but additional tire costs are going to be substantially more than gas savings especially if you a driver who drove as aggressively as I did and who visited more traffic courts than I am willing to admit
A BMW 335d is a thrill seeking decision not an economic decision based on savings.
My BMW 335i was a piece of unreliable junk and I am just glad I am not experiencing the same thing any more . The Ultimated Driving Me Crazy Experiences were too hard for me to bear.
The BMW 335d and BMW X5d are doing lousy in North America. These new introduced vehicles can only be sold with $4500 of incentivized bribe money. The Lexus hybrid RX450h are HOT vehicles without significant incentives while there will be acute shortages of the new hybrid Lexus HS.
You would expect waiting lists for new BMW diesels but the reality dictates otherwise. Fortunately Lexus is not losing any sleep over BMW diesels.
#304 of 791 Re: Stale News [dewey]
Sep 12, 2009 (12:31 pm)
A good article on the new 2010 Prius. Year's back I read a few articles in passing saying the Prius needed a lot of major things refined; and I guess this article delineated what things they spent their time on.... refining. One HUGE issue in a few of those articles was (if I remember correctly) cutting the cost of manufacture in half. Since it doesn't really apply to the consumer ethos/pathos, this article said not one word about that.
While I think it is personally cool, that the mpg went from (2nd gen) 46 combined mpg to 50 mpg combined (3rd gen) , the Edmunds.com fuel mileage article shows it to be of lesser consequence in the grand scheme of 12-15 mpg large car conversions to mid sized sedan mpg numbers (20-25 mpg). (aka eco bragging rights) . For me it would be to actually get 50 mpg at the lowest possible costs. Indeed if I stayed with gassers (I have for one commute car) 38-42 mpg in a Honda Civic (Corolla to keep on the Toyota track) makes all the cost per mile driven sense in the world.
Indeed, here is an easy example with a 15,000 per year commute requirement: I would save 95 gals per year 3.07 per gal= $291.65 yr/12 mo = $24.30 per mo.
From my .02 cent point of view, to spend 25 to 30k to get a 4 mpg increase (if I had the 2nd gen Prius)(or even the above example) would make NO sense at all; sans the ECO BRAGGING RIGHTS.
#305 of 791 Re: Ruking [dewey]
Sep 12, 2009 (1:01 pm)
Well I think your BMW experiences say it all. 20-24 mpg would be insult to injury for me. I have friends who do commutes in BMW's and literally every time I talk to them about it (I have gotten wiser, I don't ask anymore) they are buying, just bought or thinking about... buying tires !!?? Indeed I was sort of telling one friend ( BMW owner) about how fast my Honda Civic tires wore out (75,000 miles) and she looked at me quizically. The subject got around to the price (264) and SHE said that is about what I pay for 1. Mileage for her ranged from 15,000 miles to 30,000 miles if she was lucky!!?? I consider myself far harder on cars than her. But that might be a false perception based on the results.
Again to be fair, the 3,500/4,500 cash for clunkers was actually needed to sell even the most popular of cars Corolla, Civic, Prius.
#306 of 791 Re: Stale News [dewey]
Sep 12, 2009 (1:32 pm)
Now you have confirmed it. The Prius and Camry are all built on the same MC platform that will be used for the Sienna mini van. The Prius is still 15 inches shorter than the Camry and much closer in size to the Corolla. Has 33% less space for stuff than the VW Jetta Sportwagen. It is great you are happy with your Prius. Hating a car you are driving is not a good way to live. You must understand what my feelings would be each time I went into the garage and a Prius was there. I would feel like I had been sold a studio prop from a 1950s Buck Rogers show. You can get 200 MPG on a Moped. It is still a Moped, just that same as a Prius is still a Prius whether it is 2004 or 2010. It did not improve its looks with the new improved version. It appeals to a narrow band of people that like to look green whether they are or not. Driving a Prius to the Oscars then leaving it in the garage while you drive your Porsche or Bentley does not make you green. It was all a publicity gimmick by Toyota that worked. It sucked you and John into the fold. Buy a Prius and pick up chicks like DeCaprio.
Sep 12, 2009 (1:32 pm)
How it does in a race track? (boy nothing is as exciting as a dull TDI or hybrid econo boxes on a race track)
Some of us have to drive a "dull econbox" out of economic necessity, as opposed to a lifestyle choice or fashion statement. Some of those same people enjoy driving a similar set of driving characteristics to those that have more enthusiast oriented vehicles.
VW Jetta TDI Cup racing series
I didn't see this for a Prius because it's counter to its goal. The TDI seeks to make driving economical where as the Prius makes you just not want to drive.