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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#243 of 791 Re: Golf TDI is the better car [moparbad]
Sep 10, 2009 (2:10 am)
The 2010 Prius already embarrassed the Jetta TDI in the run from LA to LV and back. Is it common in the diesel diehard community to be such a masochist that you want to see another beating?
"The Back Roads
The champ: 2010 Toyota Prius with 47.2 mpg
2nd Place: 2010 Honda Insight with 44.1 mpg
3rd Place: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI with 41.2 mpg
4th Place: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 39.6 mpg
5th Place: 2009 Mini Cooper with 38.5 mpg
This was the diesel Jetta's domain last year, but the all-new 2009 model falls back in the pack to a still-impressive 41.2 mpg due to a more powerful turbodiesel engine that did a better job tackling the extended grades through the Mojave and Death Valley. The all-new Prius, on the other hand, maintains its pace to take the first victory. As expected, the Insight came close to the Prius, but its mild-hybrid technology couldn't match the Toyota's full-hybrid setup, which features more battery power and a more highly developed ability to run on electricity only."
The champ: 2010 Toyota Prius with 48.7 mpg
2nd Place: 2010 Honda Insight with 43.4 mpg
3rd Place: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 35.1 mpg
4th Place: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI with 31.6 mpg
5th Place: 2009 Mini Cooper with 30.1 mpg
As expected, the 2010 Fusion Hybrid moved up in the rankings and the Jetta TDI took a dive during the 200-mile city driving loop through suburban Las Vegas."
The champ: 2010 Toyota Prius with 47.4 mpg
2nd Place: 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI with 40.6 mpg
3rd Place: 2010 Honda Insight with 38.6 mpg
4th Place: 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid with 36 mpg
5th Place: 2009 Mini Cooper with 33.3 mpg"
Oh, wait a sec.. you actually referred to the comparo of the old Gen 2 Prius to the current Gen TDI....Buwahahahahaha!!!! Ahhh, now I see..... You need to grasp at the slightest breath of positive fresh air, sort of like being alone at sea with no help in sight, ehhh? Here I'll throw you another gasp of fresh air. The current gen TDI is better than the Gen 1 Prius....: Have a blast..
Sep 10, 2009 (4:44 am)
The Prius hybrid is much more fuel efficient that the Vw TDI. No one is debating that. It's roughly 25% more fuel efficient than the Jetta is now or new Golf TDI will be. Why is MPG continually jammed down everyone's throat when it is clear which car is better in that catagory? MPG winner = PRIUS. We get it. Trust me, we get it.
All I am saying is I will trade that 25% mileage difference for upper 30s overall mpg AND have fun driving each and every day in the new Golf. To each his own.
#246 of 791 Re: Golf TDI is the better car [kdhspyder]
Sep 10, 2009 (5:47 am)
Show us something real world. Going a few hundred miles does not give a real true picture. The ball is in the Prius court. Can they top the Jetta TDI on a real around the USA trip?
August 21, 2009, 1:42 pm
Mileage Champs Break Another Record in VW Jetta TDI
Together, the Taylors own nearly 40 world records for fuel economy, and this month they added to their tally by breaking the mileage record for driving the 48 contiguous United States. Their mark: 67.9 miles per gallon, achieved over 19 days and some 9,500 miles in a 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI.
Indeed, the folks at the Guinness Book of World Records have some pretty strict rules about mileage driving — even a minor traffic violation would have disqualified the Taylors. For record-verification purposes, a Shell station manager checked their odometer at each stop. The couple also took time-stamped photographs at each state line.
#247 of 791 Re: D4D for me Re: . [gagrice]
Sep 10, 2009 (6:30 am)
Since you've been a member here so long I would have thought that you would have known these facts about the EPA ratings. Nothing stated above is an opinion. It's history.
The fuel economy testing methods were created back when the FE ratings were first required to be shown on the Maroney labels. Nothing has been done to the testing protocols since then. What has been done is that the numbers have had 2 discounts applied to the data to make then numbers more accurate for day to day driving. I thought everyone knew this!!
#248 of 791 Re: Golf TDI is the better car [gagrice]
Sep 10, 2009 (7:11 am)
This means absolutely nothing.
If they drove a 2010 Prius their mileage would be significantly better. So why is a Prius not on the world record books? Because nobody on earth can drive as fuel efficeintly as the Taylors. This is more about the driver than the car itself. Nobody else makes it their career to beat 40 world records.
I look forward to the day when the Taylors drive a Prius because then that VW TDI mileage figure will look subpar at best. Unlike the second generation Prius the third generation has far superior highway mileage. There is no other car offered by any mainstream auto company that can beat the Prius in terms of city/highway mileage. NONE.
As one poster previously quoted: "Why do we Prius owners always focus on MPG?" The reason is because the Prius mileage is alway being challenged here. Why? I guess fiction makes better reading than facts. Such as this idea of a EPA conspiracy? I guess anyone can make up conspiracies about almost anything including whether the latest Elvis seen in Vegas is nothing other than the ghost of Elvis.
#249 of 791 Re: TDI [rminor]
Sep 10, 2009 (7:27 am)
Unfortunately your VW TDI was a piece of junk .
I am grateful I dont own such a VW.
I owned a problematical 07 BMW 335i that caused so much aggravation that I will neverbuy a BMW again. I hated it so much that I sold it even before the 4 year warranty expired.
Superior German engineering without quality control is junk. Unfortunately there is a lot of German junk out there.
Show me a German auto maker that can make a car as reliable as a Prius and I will show you Mercedes Benz in the 1970s and the early 80s. Unfortunately that involves history books and not the cars that are sold today at their dealerships
#250 of 791 Re: D4D for me Re: . [kdhspyder]
Sep 10, 2009 (7:41 am)
Actually, for the 2008 ratings, data from three additional tests are factored into the fuel economy calculation. True, these are not new tests; they carry over from the emissions testing side. However one of these tests, a cold weather test, was never previously required of diesel cars, so no data existed to roll over to the fuel economy side. Diesel manufacturers were given the option of using the standard two tests and applying a 'fudge factor' (based on an extensive data base of 600+ gasoline powered vehicles, only 2-3 diesels), for the first couple of years. After that, all five tests have to be run. It could be the use of this gasoline-derived fudge factor that skews the diesel results, but that should go away once all five tests are being run to calculate the fuel economy. I do agree that the 2008+ ratings for diesels seem to underpredict. The EPA did have a document that admitted to probably underestimating diesel bt 18%' but that verbage was later removed (and I didn't save the original .pdf). Pretty uniformly, the diesel driver data on fueleconomy.gov shows the real-world 'average' to be at the EPA highway value. True, most of these populations are low, but combined Jetta population is statistically significant. This is in contrast to most gasoline inputs, where the average is close to the combined rating. I also agree that the diesels would have had a larger tax credit if the EPA city figure was more accurate.
#251 of 791 Re: D4D for me Re: . [104wb]
Sep 10, 2009 (7:51 am)
I would love to see that missing EPA document which involves larger sampling and more closely reflects the real world population than those tiny unrepresenative samples from fueleconomy.gov.
Unfortunately it's not here. Do you know where I can access it?
#252 of 791 Re: D4D for me Re: . [dewey]
Sep 10, 2009 (8:18 am)
Here is the document. They derived their formula from 400+ cars, not 600+, and only one was a diesel. They were very much focused on more accurately reflecting hybrid mileage as they formulated the 2008 equations, you can see by reading the document.
Interestingly, they used CR data, Edmunds data, and fueleconomy.gov data as a 'sanity check' as they developed their formulae. Again, the comment about underpredicting diesel by 18% can no longer be found.