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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
Jun 24, 2009 (9:10 am)
Actually, you have to put the review into perspective. These hybrids are not sports cars and the mag rags are all about enthusiasm. I am more of an appliance type of guy with respect to my transportation. Most importantly I love the tech. The TDI has no tech like the new Prius does. It is just plain boring to me. I still love my 2004 tech goodies and the fact that only maintenance was oil changes. I have a few friends with VW/Audi's that love their cars but can't stand the high maintenance costs. The Toyota Prius really took off like an explosion once the 2004 model came out. They are so ubiquitous now. I wonder why cab companies aren't switching to diesels. Where I live I actually see Prius cabs. Highlanders too. Must be the fact that the maintenance and reliability of VW is the issue. Too bad. Oh.. and what really stinks (no punn) is that Honda seems to have abandoned their plans to bring a diesel here. So now we only have VW. Not much of choice.
#20 of 791 Re: 2010 Reviews [jpeters1970]
Jun 24, 2009 (9:49 am)
Don't forget Mercedes and BMW are offering very fine diesel cars and SUVs. SUVs being the area that diesel really makes a difference in fossil fuel consumption. There are places like Victoria BC that have lots of Prius as taxi cabs. Not sure why you never see them here in San Diego. NYC Taxi authority did everything in their power to block hybrids. Then they changed when they tried the Escape hybrid. Not sure if any US city uses Prius cabs.
VW has moved up the quality survey as Toyota has fallen down. Hyundai is near the top from close to the bottom. Mercedes has gained ground after shedding their albatross Chrysler.
#21 of 791 Expensive Choices
Jun 24, 2009 (12:16 pm)
The problem with Mercedes and BMW is that their vehicles are expensive. If I were to spend some bucks on a diesel there is only one out there that really would be worthwhile. I can't see why the 335D Bimmer is not flying off the dealer lots. An extraordinary car and the performance is similar to that of a gasser. Only issue is the urea thing that would be a pain to maintain. As to quality, VW has a LONG way to go before they are anywhere near Lexus/Toyota standards. If you're referring to JD Power surveys, I don't really consider those reliable. I tend to focus on surveys that CR puts out.
#22 of 791 Re: Expensive Choices [jpeters1970]
Jun 24, 2009 (7:34 pm)
Toyota average 1.01 problems per vehicle and VW 1.12 problems per vehicle in recent JD Power IQ results.
.11 difference, big nothing!
Consumer Reports surveys are not credible. CR only surveys it's subscribers. JD Powers data is based on a sampling group free from bias and larger sampling size than CR.
There is no evidence of difficulty of use or of maintenance of a urea addition emissions system.
#23 of 791 Re: Expensive Choices [moparbad]
Jun 25, 2009 (3:31 am)
Is that initial quality or over time?
I've answered a lot of surveys on my cars over the years and seldom do I get a survey after I have 10,000 miles on my car. Initial quality is a lot easier to achieve than long term durability.
My AudiTT didn't act up (electronics) until after 10K.
My 350Z did start having problems at 3K but the idiots that owned them never told the truth in surveys. A lot of people had the same problem that I had and yet when I saw surveys it didn't seem like a big deal. The tire wear and noise was unbearable. The numerous visits to the dealer were unforgivable.
My experience is people, especially on early surveys, are reporting on the car of their (current) dreams and really are not too critical. I guess they justify to themselves they made a good choice.
Statistically you may show VW as a close second to Toyota, but in the real world no one believes it, including many VW owners.
#24 of 791 Re: Expensive Choices [moparbad]
Jun 25, 2009 (3:33 am)
Just curious too, your id "moparbad" does that mean you think Mopar's are "bad" as in good? Or that they are bad as in junk?
If you're a Mopar fan then I can see how you could easily be fooled into thinking VW makes a durable, reliable car.
#25 of 791 Re: Expensive Choices [wvgasguy]
Jun 25, 2009 (4:53 am)
HEHEEH I'd have to agree! Mopar almost lost it until Fiat came to the rescue. Based on what I've read on the boards I'd stay away from VW for a while. I'll stick with either Honda or Toyota for reliability.
#26 of 791 JD Power
Jun 25, 2009 (4:55 am)
JD Power assesses vehicles in 4 categories.
1) Performance and Design: Taken from the Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) study, this measure is based on owner satisfaction with vehicle Performance, Style, Features and Instrument Panel, and Comfort.
2) Initial Quality: Taken from the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction, or where controls or features may work as designed, but are difficult to use or understand.
3) Predicted Reliability: Derived from historical trending for a vehicle and/or manufacturer in our Initial Quality and Vehicle Dependability Studies, Predicted Reliability is a forecast of how reliable a newer vehicle might be over time.
4) Overall Dependability: Taken from the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS), which looks at owner-reported problems in the first 3 years of new-vehicle ownership, this score is based on problems that have caused a complete breakdown or malfunction of any component, feature, or item (i.e., components that stop working or trim pieces that break or come loose).
The most recent JD Power survey was Initial Quality which only looked at the first 90 days of ownership (not long term). There may be a big difference in customer satisfaction between the first 90 day IQ and the 3 year Overall Dependability surveys with a specific vehicle.
#27 of 791 Re: Expensive Choices [jpeters1970]
Jun 25, 2009 (12:05 pm)
Based on the last few JD Power's reports, I'd give Hyundai a good look. If they bring over the Elantra diesel next year it would be a good choice.
#28 of 791 Re: JD Power [petl]
Jun 25, 2009 (2:00 pm)
Thanks for that information. It means absolutely nothing because 90 days is really not enough time to gauge whether a vehicle will last over its life expectancy. Bottom line is that MOST cars today are very reliable. The TDI does not scare me, however I'd prefer the Bimmer 330D even though it is a lot more money. That car taken care of properly will outlive me! Heck my best friend's Mercedes Diesels are still going strong since 1981!!!!! Unfortunately the car manufacturers don't seem to be advertising that diesel is CLEAN these days. The TDI commercial is cute but it's not going to make it mainstream like the hybrids are now.