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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI
519 messages, Last post on Nov 08, 2009 at 11:34 PM
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| Hi, I was hoping to get some advice. I'm in the market for a new car (I'm definitely buying used) and I want better gas mileage. I'm considering a 2006 prius, but I'm also considering a 2006 golf TDI. I've never owned a diesel (not really even driven them much) and wanted to see generally what people thought about the comparison. The main reason I'm considering it is that I've got a long highway commute and I don't do a lot of city driving so a diesel might work better for me. I'd appreciate any feedback, particularly on the diesel! Here are the two specific cars: http://vlane.com/comparison/2118 | |
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Replying to: gchambers (May 27, 2008 3:23 pm) Both ad cost to the vehicle. A diesel engine will generally last longer than a gasoline engine. Hybrids do seem to be holding up well, but consider at some point, you will have to replace battery packs. Hybrids have two systems to maintain. Unlike a fulltime electric-only vehicle, a hybrid still needs the oil and oil filter changes, coolant flushed and filled, spark plugs changed, rusted exhaust replaced, and other normal maintenance items, plus any battery pack issues. With diesels, you may have a slightly harder time finding a place to fill up. Some areas have quite a big price spread between gas and diesel. Some people don't like the smell and emissions (the model year will impact that quite a bit). These are but a few things to take into consideration when deciding which is best for you...but my first comment about city=hybrid and hwy=diesel is the biggest factor. Personally, I looked at hybrids and wanted them to work for me, but living in a rural area where almost all driving is hwy, they make no sense so I'm anxiously waiting on some of the new cleaner small diesels.
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Replying to: gchambers (May 27, 2008 3:23 pm) As to the previous comments prefering the diesel I couldn't disagree more. The hybrid obviously has 2 motors sharing the work thus longevity would be a plus. I have an '04 Prius with 95 K miles and nary a problem. I average 48 mpg summer & 38-42 mpg winter. It is, without a doubt, the smartest, most dependable car I've ever owned. Price of Deisel fuel is crazy (nearly a buck more than gas). I once owned a Rabbit Deisel (79) and must say back then it was about the worst car I ever owned. Loud noisy engine and added smoke. Winters (if you live where its cold) are problematic when the fuel gels and won't start. 6 yrs old now and winter smiles for dependable starts w/ my Prius. The Prius gave 546 miles to a tank of gas often in ideal conditions. Another point I beg to differ with... Batteries are no problem as the track record has shown. Remember they're covered for 100K if not more. In just a few simple words....Toyota has built a near masterpiece. Last point: Look next to this article and notice that the Prius gets a 9.7 score card while the VW Golf gets a lesser 8.6 grade for what its worth.
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Replying to: railroadjames (Dec 12, 2008 6:26 pm) "The hybrid obviously has 2 motors sharing the work thus longevity would be a plus." How would longevity be increased by two motors sharing the work? You now have two different sources that can have issues (toyota's great reliabilty track record aside). Also note both engine and motor make lower power and it is their combined rate that makes a "reasonable" amount of power. Neither are full sized motors working in a unstressed, relaxed 1/2 output manner. My take on it is more parts, more parts to break. "I have an '04 Prius with 95 K miles and nary a problem. " As I said, Toyota has a great track record. I never said a prius was unreliable. I simply said at some point, you'll have to replace the battery pack. Even if that is every 150k - 200k, it will need replaced at some point. Simple statement that Toyota agrees with. Not saying there is anything wrong with that. It's just a fact to be taken into consideration in the comparison, especially when looking at used vehicles that might already have 100k on them. One of my comments that might have been taken wrong was when I said a diesel engine will last longer than a gasoline engine (not talking hybrids here). In that direct comparison, you may always find exceptions, but overall, that is not something that can be argued with. Afterall, diesel (diesel oil to be precise) is a lubricant and gasoline is a solvent. Also, diesel engine are build far more beefy to handle the high stresses of a high compression engine. Diesel engines tend to outlast gas engines by 2 to 1 by mileage. "Price of Deisel fuel is crazy (nearly a buck more than gas)." Correct. That needs to be taken into consideration. That also plays a part in the city or rural comparison since small diesels get even better mpg than hybrids in high-speed cruising where hybrids clearly are the best for city or city-biased combined driving. That price difference also changes with time. Your $1 difference is a snapshot in time and even that doesn't tell the whole story. % difference is what counts. That $1 difference could mean diesel is 20% more or 80% more depending on the unit prices of each. And both are a moving target. "I once owned a Rabbit Deisel (79) and must say back then it was about the worst car I ever owned. Loud noisy engine and added smoke." You know yourself you can't compare 19 year old technology with todays diesel technology. A+ for trying, though! Ha.  The original poster doesn't mention where they live or if cold would be a factor, but with modern winter diesel, you rarely have to worry unless you are talking extreme cold temps and even then, a little additive solves that issue. "Look next to this article and notice that the Prius gets a 9.7 score card while the VW Golf gets a lesser 8.6 grade for what its worth. " Keep in mind those scores are partially based on items that are opinion (look and feel, handling, fun factor, perceived acceleration, etc.) vs. factual (reliability. etc.) I will, however, absolutely agree that VW build quality is not great. That is why my first statement, of my original post, clearly said "Not taking into consideration build quality or any other factors, the basic rule of thumb is hybrids if you do mostly city driving and diesels if you do mostly highway at highway speeds." I specifically excluded build quality in my comparison because VW is spotty and Toyota is so good. Obviously it does one no good if your diesel engine runs for 500k miles if the rest of the car won't last for 100k. There are plenty of other diesel vehicles with good build quality, though. I'll end with my previous statement which I think still stands: Not taking into consideration build quality or any other factors, the basic rule of thumb is hybrids if you do mostly city driving and diesels if you do mostly highway at high speeds.
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Replying to: chadx (Dec 17, 2008 3:48 pm) |
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Replying to: chadx (Dec 17, 2008 3:48 pm) The poster commented on a '79 diesel rabbit and I replied that one can't compare 19 year old technology with todays diesel technology. I was wrong. It is 29 year old technology. Even worse. Ha. The original poster also commented that I should look at the user review ratings because the prius score was a 9.7 score while the VW Golf gets a lesser 8.6 grade. I made the point that those scores are partially based on items that are opinion (look and feel, handling, fun factor, perceived acceleration, etc.) vs. factual (reliability, build quality. etc.) I looked into that a little further and brought up the reviewers individual reviews. One reviewer had rated the VW all Ones which brought the average score down significantly (there are only 15 reviews). Other than another reviewer with an overall rating of 4.9, most of the reviewers scored the VW in the 9.3 to 10 range. The Prius only has 6 reviews and they range from 9.4 to 9.9 (no perfect 10s like the VW). What I'm trying to show here is that the sample size is too small to be of any real value (plus it's based on the "I like it" factor). If one person logs in and scores the Prius all Ones, then it's average score will be lower than the VW. These scores can be very misleading and are almost a dis-service since some folks aren't willing to go in and look deeper. One can't make assumptions based on a super small sample size, a "look and feel" rating system and the resulting averaged score. |
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Instead, its so short ... no major bickering! Just the usual combination of logical, fact-based, scientific discussions that tend to favor diesels, mixed with emotional, reactive, irrelevant (I had a problem with a VW 29 years ago!) arguments favoring hybrids. Also, its nice to see that the oil companies have subsided in their gouging of consumers on diesel prices. The biggest joke is that in spite of the BS arguments, you could have 2 service stations of the same company (such as Chevron or Shell) within a city block, but on opposite sides of the border, and somehow diesel costs more than gas on the US side, but costs less than gas on the Canadian side of the border! Funny how those bogus excuses for cranking up the price don't apply to the same fuel from the same company from the same refinery as soon as its outside of the US.... (and no, we don't have any tax subsidies on diesel in Canada ... fuel taxes are fuel taxes whether its Premium, Regular, or Diesel)
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Replying to: dieselbreath (Mar 20, 2009 6:15 pm) |
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Replying to: chadx (Dec 12, 2008 2:36 pm) I found that my Camry Hybrid did its best in rural settings. In the hills of WV, on 2 lane roads I averaged 37+ mpg over 67,000 miles. My typical spread was 38 to 42 on rural roads, 35.5 to 39 on the Interstate, and 40+ in towns. |
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We sold an automatic, 2001 Echo to buy our automatic 2010 Prius, which my wife loves because it is quiet and gets better fuel economy. The Jetta TDI automatic gets worse mileage than our 2001 Echo and VW brags about the engine sound,"It goes VARRUUMMM!" in a recent commercial. Which part of quiet is quality does VW not understand? So the noisy diesel is now a sales pitch? Worse, it is a smaller car, not even in the same sedan class as the 2010 Prius, which I bought for $24,250 ... taxes, registration, fees, ... everything. I'm also getting an insurance policy discount because it is a hybrid. Bob Wilson
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