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Sedans Mazda6 Article Comments - 2009 Mazda 6 First Drive and Full Test
229 messages, Last post on Aug 25, 2008 at 6:33 AM
You are in the Mazda6 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
First Drive: 2009 Mazda 6 - First Impressions: With most of its major flaws fixed, the 2009 Mazda 6 is easily one of the most impressive sedans in the midsize class. (more)
Full Test: 2009 Mazda 6 s Grand Touring - Bottom Line: Manages to keep some of the zoom-zoom athleticism despite pandering to the Accord/Camry market.(more)
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 16, 2008 9:34 pm) First let me say that I don't agree with dsg4 that manual trannies have to be a losing proposition. However, it is exactly about sales numbers and nothing but sales numbers ie profits. The reason for the marketing program of Zoom-Zoom is to increase unit sales. If the $300,000 annual salary marketing guys, the ones with the access to all the sales numbers/statistics etc, thought for one minute that they could increase sales/profits by still offering a manual in the "s" model.....they would. It always amuses me when people state so definitively that Mazda should do this or that with no real knowledge of demand, previous sales numbers/trends etc. It's the same for the 5door. I have even seen posted something like "Well, my dealer doesn't have any on the lot so they must have sold like firecrackers". Or "gee me and my friends all like sticks". Now there's the epitome of market research for you. If the demand was that high for it do you really think they wouldn't offer it? I think you're right that it probably doesn't cost an arm and a leg to put a manual tranny in. So why don't they? Do they do it just to tee people off? I don't think they pay those guys to sell less cars. Well maybe the US manufacturers do as per recent history.  I drive an 07 Mazda6 and I like it but if it just wasn't getting Mazda the numbers they wanted or needed I can't fault them for changing it. Maybe all the people who say the demand is so high for the 5 door and the manual in the V6 should have bought several of each and maybe they would still be available.
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Replying to: m6user (Aug 16, 2008 10:26 pm)  BTW, when I said "it's not just about sales numbers", I was trying to make the point that while the manual V6 itself wasn't selling well, it probably or possibly enhanced sales of the auto version by helping cast a sporty image for the Mazda 6. I'm no marketing expert, but I believe that the sublime sportiness (including availability of manuals in all trims) is a MAJOR reason why the 3- and 5-series sell well..........despite the fact that only very few BMW buyers care for sportiness. I believe the sporty manual V6 had a similar effect on the prev. gen. Mazda 6 and it would have sold even more poorly without the sportiness image. I was in no way suggesting ithe manual sold well and Mazda foolishly pulled it off the market for no reason. |
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Replying to: m6user (Aug 16, 2008 10:26 pm) LOL! Well, my suggestions for Mazda have been based on my own personal experiences, on conversations I've had with friends, and the little I know of human psychology. I don't pretend to know much about market research. I became a Mazda fan because their cars are reliable, relatively stylish, and relatively sporty. I really fell in love with the Protege and own one. My admiration of Mazda raised to another level when the Mazda 6 was released in 2003. This car was very stylish and distinctive, the sportiest non-luxury mid-sized sedan, and even had a manual V6 that could be had with the same features as the auto version! Had I wanted/needed a mid-sized car at the time, that would have easily been my choice. The 2nd gen model has no V6 manual and class-leading sportiness going for it, and I must admit I'm no longer excited about it.....it's still a great car and on my list, but the emotion and excitement I had for the prev. ge. is gone. The 1st gen Mazda 6, while receiving a boost from the styling and zoom-zoom sportiness, didn't sell well primarily because non-enthusiasts thought it was relatively unrefined, was a little too small, and the engines lacked torque. In short, it was a great Mazda but only a decent mid-sized car. I think it's a great idea that Mazda has fixed those problems with the new Mazda 6. Honestly, as far as practical non-enthusiast use is concerned, my only serious criticism of the new car is the fuel economy of the V6 and the 4-cyl manual. I think Mazda need to find a way of increasing those by 2-4 mpg REALLY SOON. But the improvements have come with a big reduction in sportiness, including but not limited to the omission of the V6 manual. The Altima (although it has no V6 manual) proves that a sporty mid-sized car CAN sell well...... Why do I believe the reduced sportiness of the 2009 Mazda 6 is a big mistake? Because the Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and perhaps the Nissan competition have other things going for them. Toyota and Honda have awesome reliability reputations and hold their value extremely well, the Hyundai always offers the best value-for-money, and the Altima is the sportiness leader and has fancy CVTs that offer class-leading fuel economy. Without something extra going on for the 2009 Mazda 6, people are not going to leave the Camry, Accord, Sonata and Altima to flock to the Mazda 6. I myself, while I still like the 2009 Mazda 6, am now considering the Accord and Altima too.......I wouldn't if the 6 were the clear sportiness leader. This is why I believe Mazda should make the 2009 6 sportier than the Altima and bring back the V6 manual in GT trim. The sporty image AND the resolved issues would then make it a winner and convince some CamCordAltimaSonataMalibu fans. Once again, this is my "common sense" opinion based on my life experience.....
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 17, 2008 12:48 pm) IMO, Mazda was in a quandry. They knew that they couldn't compete and make decent money without increasing sales to at least about 100,000. They knew from past experience and real data that they were missing a large number of sales due to the size and the fact that a lot of people(not enthusiusts) were ignoring their brand because it was probably too sporty for them and a little too small. So Mazda figured they went a little too much zoom-zoom with the 1st gen and toned it down a bit for the second but made it so it still offers a sporty experience in a more comfortable body so to speak. I realize that this decision alienates a portion of their fan base that wants more hard core sportiness but they are betting that there is whole lot bigger swath of semi-enthusiusts that may buy the car. Time will tell. These people make billion dollar decision two to three years(or more) out and things can change in that amount of time. Look at gas prices. 170hp with a stick can still be pretty sporty. I seem to recall review after review(professional) that liked the handling of the I4 better in comparison to the V6 because of less weight in the front and a little better balance. Anyway, I know you're an avid fan of the way the 6 was and I am too but I'm willing to give the new one a fair shake.
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Replying to: m6user (Aug 17, 2008 5:20 pm) So, yes, I'm basing all my sportiness assesment from what I've read from Edmunds. (I haven't seen any full review of the car from other websites, though I've read first drives.) Well, it's just one statement that stands out from the Edmunds' review for me: the 2009 Mazda 6 isn't as sporty as the Altima. Really, my issue is not that the car isn't sporty at all......it is that it's not the sportiness class leader. [Of course, I'm waiting to read full tests from other websites.......] My opinion is that a Mazda should always be the sportiness class-leader to claim the zoom-zoom crown. I think you're right that Mazda was in a quandry. But if they wanted outright sales, I'm pretty sure zoom-zoom was the wrong strategy: I don't think sportiness sells cars in Toyota-like numbers. My prediction is that the 2nd gen Mazda 6 will sell better than the 1st gen (because it is simply a better family car), but not quite near as well as CamryAccordAltima. To get close to these competitors sales, they should restore the sportiness, bring the V6 manual back and improve the fuel economy by 3 mpg.....such a Mazda 6, together with all the improvements the 2nd gen makes in the practical use department, would create the perfect car. "........but I'm willing to give the new one a fair shake." Come on, m6user. I've given the car a fair shake already. I've already said it's a great family car that I can't fault in any way except for its fuel economy. I'll give it an A on everything except sportiness (B) and fuel economy (B-). And, like I said, it's still very much on my list.
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I'll throw my 2cents in here as an owner of an 09 iGT. First off, many get it right in this car is an excellent family sedan while having lost a bit of it's sports sedan nature. Wth that said, I still feel the Mazda stands out as the best sporty sedan in its segment. It wasn't leaps above the Altima, but it did communicate better through the steering wheel and pedals....the suspensions were admittedly pretty close. I felt the interior of the 6 felt considerably more upscale than the Altima as well. I wish Mazda had a Sports Package option that included a retuned suspension, leather trimmed sports seats, performance tires, and a couple of other small differences (spoiler, etc). Price it close to the other 2 packages available (~$1700) and a manual 4cyl touring would MSRP at $24K with this package ($25K for auto). I bet this configuration would be a big seller. I'm also sure a Mazdaspeed version of the car is in the works and well probably see it as a 2011 model....
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Replying to: webwarmiller (Aug 18, 2008 6:10 am)
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 17, 2008 8:43 pm)
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Replying to: m6user (Aug 18, 2008 7:58 am) I have never driven a 2007+ Altima, but, I have driven the 08 Accord and Camry. In my opinion, the Mazda6 has a tighter drive and a nicer cabin. Power is about equal in all cars (V6 and I4). According to many sources, the VCM Accord does not get as good FE as they thought it would, many get 21-23 overall. A few owners have already mentioned that the 09 Mazda6 gets close to 25mpg AVERAGE. My district rep has been driving one for about a month, and he says he averages about 23. For me, I like the new 6. I have driven it many times, both 4 cyl and V6.
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 18, 2008 7:14 am) It is a shame that having a NA only version of Mazda6 would possibly eliminate a future MazdaSpeed 6. |
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