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Sedans Mazda6 Article Comments - 2009 Mazda 6 First Drive and Full Test
229 messages, Last post on Aug 25, 2008 at 6:33 AM
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First Drive: 2009 Mazda 6 - First Impressions: With most of its major flaws fixed, the 2009 Mazda 6 is easily one of the most impressive sedans in the midsize class. (more)
Full Test: 2009 Mazda 6 s Grand Touring - Bottom Line: Manages to keep some of the zoom-zoom athleticism despite pandering to the Accord/Camry market.(more)
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Replying to: networkguy (Aug 14, 2008 6:01 am) It's just that I was hoping for something mid-sized AND sporty, with a manual, without having to step up a BMW! A used 2007 Mazda 6 V6 manual is beginning to sound very appealling.....or maybe just holding on to my 2002 Protege5. I do understand what Mazda are attempting with the 2009+ Mazda 6, and understand that the increase in size was kinda "inevitable". But I think they could and should have pulled it off while remaining sportier than the Altima! Instead they've created what is a great car but a bad Mazda! |
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 13, 2008 9:58 am)
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 14, 2008 10:16 am)
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Replying to: exit123 (Aug 14, 2008 11:21 am) http://www.congressionalmazda.com/new-inventory/vehicle-details.htm?vehicleId=5f- 336e084046381e012e43f15762cdb3&useHistory=true Was going to buy an 09 but decided the 08 was too good a deal to pass up and figured why get a first year car. Had some issues with my 07 335i, which was a first year model. |
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From the review it seems as though the biggest thing holding the car back is the tire choice. I'm sure if the car was outfitted with performance summer tires the handling and braking would have been much better. I'm sure that would make the car more than sportier enough for the target audience. This is not a track car, this is a sporty family car and from the review it succeeds as such. The interior seems very nice, but I don't like the exterior dimensions growing. This is a terrible trend, and thankfully Nissan had enough sense not to do that with their new Maxima. Just like my new 2009 Sonata Limited V6, which I think is the shortest car in the class, yet has the most interior room and the biggest trunk. That's how you build a proper midsize sedan. Maximize interior space and shrink exterior dimensions, making the car more nimble, lighter, and to my eyes better looking. Also, people quit crying about the lack of manual transmission. I have said this before, but your crys are falling on deaf ears. Nobody wants a manual anymore (especially not on a family sedan) except for maybe 10% of the driving population. Selling cars is about the bottom line, and it really doesn't pay to appease such a small percentage of the population to have to build a separate transmission. It's a losing proposition for the manufacture and for the dealership, as manual transmission cars sit on dealer lots collecting dust. Honda tried this experiment with the previous model Accord and it sold poorly, and therefore won't be offered for the new model except for the coupe and the four cylinder. Automatics get the same or better gas mileage than manual transmissions, so the gas mileage argument is no longer valid. With today's highly congested roads filled with poor drivers, nobody wants a manual transmission, so you better learn to like automatics because pretty soon that's all you'll have.
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Replying to: dgs4 (Aug 16, 2008 8:23 pm) "This is not a track car, this is a sporty family car and from the review it succeeds as such....." Nobody here has said they expect it to be a track car. What I've said is that I expect it to be sportier than all its competition (Altima, Accord, Malibu, Sonata, Camry, etc.). The prev. gen set a standard and the one has failed to meet it. Remember that the prev. gen. wasn't a track car either. Does that make the 2009 Mazda 6 a bad car? No! I think it's a great car. But so are the Accord and Altima. Now, I'll have to choose one of the three. If it had retained the sportiness advantage, trust me, I wouldn't be looking at the Altima and Accord. "From the review it seems as though the biggest thing holding the car back is the tire choice. " Not necessarily. I doubt the prev. gen. had performance tires, but it maintained the sportiness leadership very comfortably. And I doubt the Altima has performance tires either. Mazda has softened this car, period. "Also, people quit crying about the lack of manual transmission........It's a losing proposition for the manufacture and for the dealership, as manual transmission cars sit on dealer lots collecting dust......" Did you hear anyone "cry" when Honda dropped the Accord V6? No, because Honda are not aiming for enthusiasts. But Mazda is, and to omit the V6 manual is a big mistake. Arguing that Mazda shouldn't have a V6 manual because most people don't want it is like arguing that the 3- and 5-series should no longer emphasize the sportiness aspect because most buyers only care for the badge, speed and prestige. Both arguments are backed by facts but are terrible all the same. BMW would have no image if it stopped offering manual transmissions and obsessing about 50-50 weight distribution and other sportiness issues. By satisfying that "10% of the population", Mazda keep that Zoom-Zoom image alive and entices other potential customers......just like BMW is doing. Look, the bottom line is this. The prev. gen. Mazda 6 was a great Mazda and a decent family car. This new one is a decent (perhaps mediocre) Mazda and a great family car.....this is a mistake IMO because the Mazda 6 now has nothing extra going for it. It should strive to be both a great Mazda and a great family car. Check this out: Honda Accord: great car......legendary Honda reliability and value retention. Nissan Altima: great car and great styling.......sportiness leader, and has fancy CVTs. 2009 Mazda 6: great car and great styling.......but nothing else! (It's class leading performance is blunted by class lagging fuel economy....up to 4 mpg behind the class leaders' V6s. The 4-cyl is not outstanding in any way and the manual fuel economy is disappointing.)
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 16, 2008 9:34 pm) First let me say that I don't agree with dsg4 that manual trannies have to be a losing proposition. However, it is exactly about sales numbers and nothing but sales numbers ie profits. The reason for the marketing program of Zoom-Zoom is to increase unit sales. If the $300,000 annual salary marketing guys, the ones with the access to all the sales numbers/statistics etc, thought for one minute that they could increase sales/profits by still offering a manual in the "s" model.....they would. It always amuses me when people state so definitively that Mazda should do this or that with no real knowledge of demand, previous sales numbers/trends etc. It's the same for the 5door. I have even seen posted something like "Well, my dealer doesn't have any on the lot so they must have sold like firecrackers". Or "gee me and my friends all like sticks". Now there's the epitome of market research for you. If the demand was that high for it do you really think they wouldn't offer it? I think you're right that it probably doesn't cost an arm and a leg to put a manual tranny in. So why don't they? Do they do it just to tee people off? I don't think they pay those guys to sell less cars. Well maybe the US manufacturers do as per recent history.  I drive an 07 Mazda6 and I like it but if it just wasn't getting Mazda the numbers they wanted or needed I can't fault them for changing it. Maybe all the people who say the demand is so high for the 5 door and the manual in the V6 should have bought several of each and maybe they would still be available.
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Replying to: m6user (Aug 16, 2008 10:26 pm)  BTW, when I said "it's not just about sales numbers", I was trying to make the point that while the manual V6 itself wasn't selling well, it probably or possibly enhanced sales of the auto version by helping cast a sporty image for the Mazda 6. I'm no marketing expert, but I believe that the sublime sportiness (including availability of manuals in all trims) is a MAJOR reason why the 3- and 5-series sell well..........despite the fact that only very few BMW buyers care for sportiness. I believe the sporty manual V6 had a similar effect on the prev. gen. Mazda 6 and it would have sold even more poorly without the sportiness image. I was in no way suggesting ithe manual sold well and Mazda foolishly pulled it off the market for no reason. |
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Replying to: m6user (Aug 16, 2008 10:26 pm) LOL! Well, my suggestions for Mazda have been based on my own personal experiences, on conversations I've had with friends, and the little I know of human psychology. I don't pretend to know much about market research. I became a Mazda fan because their cars are reliable, relatively stylish, and relatively sporty. I really fell in love with the Protege and own one. My admiration of Mazda raised to another level when the Mazda 6 was released in 2003. This car was very stylish and distinctive, the sportiest non-luxury mid-sized sedan, and even had a manual V6 that could be had with the same features as the auto version! Had I wanted/needed a mid-sized car at the time, that would have easily been my choice. The 2nd gen model has no V6 manual and class-leading sportiness going for it, and I must admit I'm no longer excited about it.....it's still a great car and on my list, but the emotion and excitement I had for the prev. ge. is gone. The 1st gen Mazda 6, while receiving a boost from the styling and zoom-zoom sportiness, didn't sell well primarily because non-enthusiasts thought it was relatively unrefined, was a little too small, and the engines lacked torque. In short, it was a great Mazda but only a decent mid-sized car. I think it's a great idea that Mazda has fixed those problems with the new Mazda 6. Honestly, as far as practical non-enthusiast use is concerned, my only serious criticism of the new car is the fuel economy of the V6 and the 4-cyl manual. I think Mazda need to find a way of increasing those by 2-4 mpg REALLY SOON. But the improvements have come with a big reduction in sportiness, including but not limited to the omission of the V6 manual. The Altima (although it has no V6 manual) proves that a sporty mid-sized car CAN sell well...... Why do I believe the reduced sportiness of the 2009 Mazda 6 is a big mistake? Because the Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and perhaps the Nissan competition have other things going for them. Toyota and Honda have awesome reliability reputations and hold their value extremely well, the Hyundai always offers the best value-for-money, and the Altima is the sportiness leader and has fancy CVTs that offer class-leading fuel economy. Without something extra going on for the 2009 Mazda 6, people are not going to leave the Camry, Accord, Sonata and Altima to flock to the Mazda 6. I myself, while I still like the 2009 Mazda 6, am now considering the Accord and Altima too.......I wouldn't if the 6 were the clear sportiness leader. This is why I believe Mazda should make the 2009 6 sportier than the Altima and bring back the V6 manual in GT trim. The sporty image AND the resolved issues would then make it a winner and convince some CamCordAltimaSonataMalibu fans. Once again, this is my "common sense" opinion based on my life experience.....
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Aug 17, 2008 12:48 pm) IMO, Mazda was in a quandry. They knew that they couldn't compete and make decent money without increasing sales to at least about 100,000. They knew from past experience and real data that they were missing a large number of sales due to the size and the fact that a lot of people(not enthusiusts) were ignoring their brand because it was probably too sporty for them and a little too small. So Mazda figured they went a little too much zoom-zoom with the 1st gen and toned it down a bit for the second but made it so it still offers a sporty experience in a more comfortable body so to speak. I realize that this decision alienates a portion of their fan base that wants more hard core sportiness but they are betting that there is whole lot bigger swath of semi-enthusiusts that may buy the car. Time will tell. These people make billion dollar decision two to three years(or more) out and things can change in that amount of time. Look at gas prices. 170hp with a stick can still be pretty sporty. I seem to recall review after review(professional) that liked the handling of the I4 better in comparison to the V6 because of less weight in the front and a little better balance. Anyway, I know you're an avid fan of the way the 6 was and I am too but I'm willing to give the new one a fair shake.
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