Article Comments-2009 Audi A4 First Drive and Full Test

34 messages, Last post on May 05, 2009 at 5:37 PM

You are in the Audi A4 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A4, Sedan

First Drive: 2009 Audi A4 Avant - First Impressions: A stylish, lively driving package as always, but there's even less cargo room than before.(more)

Full Test: 2009 Audi A4 - What Works: The best-handling A4 ever; beautifully built interior and now with actual rear-seat legroom; fantastic brakes.(more)

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#22 of 34 Bimmer is a winner by tib2006 May 30, 2008 (10:46 pm)
Replying to: rjlaero (May 29, 2008 1:05 pm) All things considered, the Audi A4 is a great car. But who wants to pay such a lofty sticker price for nothing more than a "great car" that can be outrun by a V6 Camry(6.0 seconds), not to mention a Honda Civic Si(6.3 seconds, per motor trend)? Also, if I were considering any of these cars (unfortunately not at this time!) I would choose the Bimmer 335i (minus iDrive please) in a heartbeat, as one can be had for around $42K as a 4 door. OK, maybe missing some of the luxury options, and no AWD. But I don't live in the snowbelt, so I have no need for it. In terms of all the luxury items, I would never use most of them anyway, I will appreciate the Bimmer for its handling and acceleration capabilities. Furthermore, the new A4 may be the best handling ever, but don't kid yourself into thinking its going to keep up with a 335i on twisty blacktop. Sure it will do an admirable job carving corners, and AWD helps with traction, but it still is missing the balance of the rear-drive Bimmer. Also, I think they could have skipped the adjustable suspension. The 3 series does without this, and there is never a substitute for a well-tuned suspension. Sure, the adjustable settings add flexibility, but its just one more thing to have to mess with. Sometimes you just want to get in and drive. On the flip side, the A4 has plenty going for it, including a great interior that always impresses, not to mention a better rear seat than before. Audi has a 3.6L V6 in its stable that it could borrow from the VW Passat (funny enough, a less expensive car making 15 more horses) and tune it to 305 horses with direct injection, than it would compete much more solidly with the likes of the G35 and 3 series. For 46K, this is the kind of zip I expect from the best from Stuttgart. In conclusion, how about a manual transmission with the V6 models even if less than 10% of the buyers go for it. Meanwhile, I will stick with what Bavaria has to offer. I rest my case.
#23 of 34 "Inside Line" "world's first" salesmanship... by bonzjr May 31, 2008 (10:47 am)
The article is titled on the front page of "Inside Line" as the "world's first" full-test of the 2009 Audi A4. I guess they missed "Autocar UK" testing it -- in full -- back in February 2008. Print edition and online (the fact that "Autocar" tested a FWD TDI variant is irrelevant -- "Inside Line" did not qualify engine-type or drive system in the headline). Funny -- "Inside Line" is an internet only publication and the internet is such a global medium, yet they missed something like that in the interest of self-promotion. "World's first?" Uh, no. Look around a bit. You beat the US buff books, that's it. Good review though.
#24 of 34 Drove A5 & absolutely loved it! by ribbonspeakers May 31, 2008 (8:06 pm)
OK, just drove for the first time the '08 A5 coupe 3.2L 6Tiptronic, so-called "S-Line" package whose apparently only mechanical difference is 19" vs. standard 17" wheels (I'll prefer the 17s though the car I drove was not excessively harsh). Don't want the coupe & am leaning toward the Avant/estate/wagon depending on finances. Salesman mgr in Layton UT is a great guy. I have absolutely no industry affiliation. To compare the bland looks of any non-M-series 3 sedan to this car is just an injustice, period (even the M3 sedan may not compete). I was looking at the road (no salesman in the car) & my wife said half the people on the street were gawking wildly at the car. The headlights are similar to the R8s (which the salesman said is, at $140k, $100k less costly than the next hand made supercar...& he's sold out till 2012). I favor the look of the new 4/5 series more than just about anything I can think of right now that mortals can afford. Plus my wife & I fit very comfortably...I'm 6-3-230lbs. We absolutely do not fit comfortably in the 3-series. The overall emotional reaction to driving the A5 was the closest I've had to that of driving a new '04 911 Cabriolet. I've driven the current 3-series & the current A4 sedan on an autocross course at high speed. The new A5/coming new A4 are hugely upgraded in handling, a different universe from the current A4. Maybe right there w/ the 3-series/Sport package; on bad traction surface no contest the A5 would be preferred (obviously). Definitely the A5 is more comfortable. Base '09 A4 will have: PMR, leather, Quattro 40/60 front/rear torque bias, ZF 6Tiptronic/paddles, split folding rear seat, electric driver seat, new 2.0L I4 turbo w/ 211hp/258tq. That's 15lb-ft more torque than the 3.2L V6 I drove today. MPG n/a. Base estimate $34-$35k USD. For that money BMW offers a 328i A/T w/ 230hp & far less torque. I'd take the '09 A4 over the Bimmer (Beemer is 2-wheel machines only) anyday...but again, I have specific comfort requirements & appreciate the new A4's special cosmetic appeal. We also get about 60" snow average here.
#25 of 34 Re: Full Test available! [rjlaero] by contractor1 Jun 01, 2008 (4:20 pm)
Replying to: rjlaero (May 29, 2008 1:05 pm) I am shocked that someone finally put things in perspective. You are correct on all counts. To compare an A4 with the BMW 335 is rediculous. The only comparison is the 328, period. If you want a comparison then use the new S4 but I doubt anyone who likes BMW will do that because they will loose in the testing, period. Unfortunately, I have not been able to keep my allegence with Audi (18 years) due to the fact that the performance cars ( RS4 and S5 ) are only manual. My wife cannot drive manual and therefore a tip system or DSG would be great and I think would sell more cars to the general public. Bad marketing on Audi's part. So I'm getting an Evo10 MR. Please Audi, come back with the right marketing.
#26 of 34 Beautiful by ace47 Jun 02, 2008 (2:43 am)
I agree with a lot of people here. The AUDI is way better than the 335i regarding the looks. As for performance, people who buy a car like this don't really care about the 0to60 or 1/4 mile. They mostly go for looks and I can't think of a better looking sedan at the moment.
#27 of 34 Re: No Maunual or DSG is a deal-breaker [sunilb] by huntzinger Jun 02, 2008 (6:28 am)
Replying to: sunilb (May 18, 2008 4:10 pm) My understanding is that they already build the car (with manual transmission) for the European market... so why not just offer the option here in the states?? There's basically two hidden costs that you're ignoring. The first is that DoT safety regulations require the manufacturer to go crash some number of vehicles for every engine/drivetrain permutation that they want to sell. The second is that there's always some parts that are unique to each permutation, so someone has to pay for all of those spare parts to be stocked in every regional distribution center for the next 15 years. The unfortunate reality is that a manufacturer needs 'economy of scale' in product sales in order to make offering such options viable. Long story short, you need far more than merely 'hundreds' of a particular engine-drivetrain sold -- you need 'hundreds per week', so as to get into the range of over 10K/year. Now I'm making up these numbers, but they do serve to illustrate: Figure: 6 crash tests $35K/vehicle + $100K analysis/test = $810K expense $20K parts stock * 10 years * 10 distribution centers = $2M expense Very roughly, that's $3M in overhead costs to support the permutation. If we say that they expect that changes in models (refreshes, etc) are only good for 3 years worth of sales before they have to redo-, and they're selling 500 cars/year, then the above $3M expense only gets amortized over 1,500 vehicles, which works out to a $2,000 cost premium per vehicle sold. We don't have to like this, but this is the economic realities of niche products. -hh Replies to this message: gasser (Jun 03, 2008 6:03 am)
#28 of 34 Re: No Maunual or DSG is a deal-breaker [huntzinger] by gasser Jun 03, 2008 (6:03 am)
Replying to: huntzinger (Jun 02, 2008 6:28 am) Factor in a very weak dollar and it makes even less sense unfortunately. I would love to get the V6 with a 6MT. By the way, if you want a 6MT 3 series in Kansas City, you have to order one, there's none on the lot.
#29 of 34 equiptment by rjlaero Jun 05, 2008 (7:01 am)
you also have to consider there's only 2 levels of equiptment on the 2009 3.2 A4. You have to order either a premium plus or prestige model. Premium plus includes the led's, xenons, bluetooth, ipod, power & memory seats, leather, sirius and several other things. So there won't be any stripped down cheapo models like BMW advertises than few people want and are almost never on dealers lots.
#30 of 34 They forgot the engine by duncanlord Aug 28, 2008 (3:26 pm)
Every time I find myself in the market for a car, I try and convince myself to buy an Audi. I love the understated styling of the cars and the grip and safety of Quattro, the interiors are fantastic, there's no "hey, look at me! I'm driving a BMW" statement stigma, I am more impressed with Audi's dominance at Le Mans than I am with BMW's progress in Formula 1, and the list goes on. But every time, I buy a BMW instead, and it's because they consistently outperform the Audis. If Audi had just tossed in a 320 horsepower V6 and kept the price equal to the 335i's, I would be there in a heartbeat. But they didn't. They gave us a 265-hp engine instead. The bar for the $45,000 sports sedan market is much higher than that. And no, it's not all about 0-60 times, but they've got to get close to be in the game. I love Audi, but until they can really deliver on their performance message (just get close -- 1.7 seconds slower in the 0-60 category is not close), I'll keep buying 3-series, much as I try to convince myself to go Audi. Replies to this message: 604doc (Aug 29, 2008 7:15 am) byronwalter (Aug 30, 2008 1:43 pm) smaccoy (Sep 05, 2008 12:15 pm)
#31 of 34 Re: They forgot the engine [duncanlord] by 604doc Aug 29, 2008 (7:15 am)
Replying to: duncanlord (Aug 28, 2008 3:26 pm) My thoughts exactly. Replies to this message: byronwalter (Aug 30, 2008 1:43 pm) smaccoy (Sep 05, 2008 12:15 pm)