Last post on May 10, 2010 at 5:35 AM
You are in the Subaru Forester
What is this discussion about?
Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester, Car Comparisons, SUV
#1552 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [newguy53]
Apr 25, 2010 (4:26 pm)
All the V6s were upgraded to 230hp output and Mitsubishi recommends premium fuel for best performance. It is not required, but timing will be retarded to prevent knock, so it won't produce the full 230hp with lower octane.
As for the warranty, you are protected by the Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act. As long as the parts and service meets the manufacturer's specifications, the warranty is still valid. Keep receipts and service records to be safe.
Forester-pro- reliability, lack of depreciation, owner loyalty, solid build
con- no bluetooth w/o nav (NY has hands free law), sub-par interior quality
We own a 2009 Forester X Limited PZEV, so I'll focus on that.
You're right about the pros, but I'd add that it's an IIHS Top Safety Pick, the only model you're considering that earns that title.
The PZEV variant makes 175hp (vs 170hp for other Foresters) and of course is greener. Mileage has been quite good, on trips we can break 30mpg if we keep speeds reasonable. Also, it has big-for-its-class gas tank, at 16.9 gallons, so range between fill-ups is great.
I notice you have a pair of capable 4 bangers and a pair of V6s. If you plan to tow, or haul heavy loads often, consider one of the V6s, or a Forester XT (turbo). You'll want the extra torque. Of course you'll sacrifice mileage and range for any V6/turbo, but it may be worth it. Consider your needs first.
MT clocked a Forester X auto at 9.3 seconds to 60mph, which is more than adequate, but if you're a speed demon get the turbo (or maybe a RAV4 V6).
Bluetooth - does your Garmin have that? I've owned 6 of them, and my Nuvi 265wt and 1490T both work well with my BlackBerry Bold 9700. I just got the 1490T for $239 (open box), and I love it. Text-to-speech is essential and one reason I ditched my old Nuvi 200w (it also had outdated maps).
We had a 98 Forester for 9 years, then an 02 Legacy for 7 years, and now the 09 Forester. 18 years total and no major issues. My dealer jokes that I see him every 7 years, to pay cash for a replacement. I priced a 7 year bumper-to-bumper warranty for $715, so don't let that stop you.
Plus - if you get a Chase Subaru credit card, you can use credits from that to pay for the warranty. I have $500 saved up, so I'd pay $215 right now. I also got $1600 off the original purchase. TCO is rock bottom for me.
Other comments, let's see...
Santa Fe: it's a bit long in the tooth. It got nice engine upgrades, though.
CR-V: also got an engine upgrades, now at 180hp, with good mileage, too.
Good luck shopping around, that's the fun part.
#1553 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [ateixeira]
Apr 25, 2010 (4:30 pm)
ok.. 6 minutes, but who's counting!
#1554 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [authurdent]
Apr 25, 2010 (4:36 pm)
ateixeira will stop by in the next 5 minutes to tell you the rest of the story!
Took me 3.
Your comparison still has the mistake about AWD vs. 4WD.
The lock button on the Mitsu locks the torque split, it does not lock front and rear axles. It's AWD as well, which is a good thing. AWD allows for the axles to move at different speeds, acting as a differential, so it can be used full-time and not just on slippery surfaces.
CR-V has part-time 4WD, for slippery surfaces only. A rotary blade coupling engages the rear axle only when needed, and not above certain speeds (it reverts to 100% FWD at higher speeds). Since it cannot act as a differential, it must disengage (hence the part-time status) on dry pavement, else it would bind and make nasty noises when you made a U-turn.
Outlander's Active Center Differential = full-time AWD
Forester's Active AWD = full-time AWD
Forester's Viscous Coupling (5MT models) = full-time AWD
CR-V's RealTime 4WD = part-time 4WD
#1555 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [authurdent]
Apr 25, 2010 (4:38 pm)
ok.. 6 minutes, but who's counting!
Originally it was 3 but then I edited a typo (forgot to use past tense when saying the old Garmin "had" outdated maps since I no longer own it).
#1556 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [newguy53]
Apr 25, 2010 (5:14 pm)
newguy, you'll find that while ateixeira is a proponent of the Forester & I'm all for the Outlander, we can discuss the cars relative strengths & weaknesses without coming to blows. I think we agree that our personal choices won't work for everyone. You won't find that in many Edmunds threads.
Regarding the Outlander:
1. Premium: The XLS & GT have the same engine & 6-speed automatic trans (but different AWD systems) so the Premium recommendation applies to both trim lines. Premium is not a requirement so you do not need to use it to maintain warranty. Running regular gas will drop the HP by a few, probably 4-8, but will show no adverse affects. Iíve been burning midgrade mostly and am exceeding EPA in city and getting it on the highway so far (4600 miles to date).
2. Warranty: I have a í99 Galant for over 10 years before getting the Ď10 Outlander GT. I had a couple of warranty repairs that were handled with no trouble and no griping from the dealer. By law you do not have to have a dealer maintain your vehicle to satisfy warranty requirements but you will need to keep records so you can prove youíve done the maintenance. A dealer implying you have to have service done there is using a scare tactic and IMO should be avoided. That said, my dealer is convenient so we use them for pretty much everything. Regular maintenance is cost-competitive with most places, maybe a buck or two more but not enough to matter, and it establishes a relationship that can lead to the dealer being on your side if a repair is questionable for warranty coverage.
As an FYI there are currently H4 and I4 engines but no V4s in passenger cars. Subaru uses Horizontally-opposed cylinders (H4; called "boxer" engines) and most everyone else uses an Inline cylinder (I4) bank. I think there are motorcycles with V4s but I havenít heard of any in cars. Most 6 cylinders are in a V formation and are hence V6es though there are some I6es out there (IIRC BMW does some).
The Santa Fe is good and thereís generally no problems with Hyundai reliability from í01 forward. I simply found it competent but bland. I never drove the CR-V as I wanted a V6 and even with 180 or so HP most reviews called the CR-Vís acceleration adequate or anemic.
You might also take a gander at the Chevy Equinox & Ford Edge.
How about we try to help by looking at other features you may want or need? For instance, can you comment on or rate the following
- 3rd row seats. Outlander has them, SF has them as an option I believe. Forester does not offer them.
- Flat-folding 2nd row. Forester & Outlander have it, Equinox does not.
- Backup sensors or camera. I seriously like the backup camera in the Outlander.
- Premium audio system. The Rockford-Fosgate in the Outlander does some nice things. Besides being powerful, it includes a hard drive that records any CD you put in it so you don't have to keep your CD collection in the car.
- Voice controls.
- FWD or AWD.
- Towing capacity.
- Roof cargo capacity. Most are 75 pounds; the Outlander, non-GT, is 110 pounds (I only know this as I read it in the manual yesterday when I was reading up on cargo capacity before buying 800 pounds of dirt). So, then, cargo capacity: 1175 pounds for the Outlander.
- Sunroof. The Forester has the Outlander beat here. Safety-wise, the Outlander's sunroof has 1-touch close and senses obstructions (like your arm) and won't close on them. The Forester may do that as well; I'm not sure. The 1-touch up driver power windows does the same.
- Power this 'n' that.
- Tech toys. I'm not sure what's on the XLS but the Outlander GT has rain-sensing wipers, automatic headlights, load-leveling headlights (lets you adjust them if the back end is weighed down), climate control, paddle shifters.
- Tailgate design. Most CUVs have the traditional tailgate that goes up. The RAV4 opens to the side (the wrong side). The Outlander is a split design that has a fold-down section. It's useful to sit on for tailgating and also for allowing long, flat items to stick out the back whie allowing the upper tailgate to close.
- Resale value. Mitsu won't win this contest, but it really only matters if you intend on keeping the car for 5 or fewer years. The longer you keep it the less resale matters.
- Price you're willing to pay.
#1557 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [ateixeira]
Apr 25, 2010 (5:31 pm)
Thanks for all the replies so soon- I knew this forum was the best place to go with my questions...
For further clarity- towing, excessive offroading etc. is not much of an issue- live in an outer borough of NYC- mostly looking for a safe car to drive to the train during the week and highways on the weekend......
bluetooth is preferable as a car based feature as I don't think wife would hook up garmin every time should drove- safety and legal issue otherwise...
Forester's lack of blue tooth and subpar interior are the big strikes- love it otherwise....
the hyundai is beautiful inside- love the interior and included features.... neighbor has one- 2003- before it was further refined- and loves it-the new engines look great too...
biggest issue with the Sante Fe is the warranty horror stories i've seen- dealers look for any reason to get out of covered repair.... also- the fact that the warranty is only valid at dealer the car was purchased from- i plan on moving at some point- so to travel 2 hours for repairs is a dealbreaker....forgetting about possible dealership issues....
does anyone have any issues with Mitsu warranty covered service?? are they more inclined to honor the warranty -i.e. opposite of hyundai??
plan on using regular gas- so a few less horses is not an issue....as long as it wouldn't void any warranty....
#1558 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [fushigi]
Apr 25, 2010 (5:43 pm)
thanks for the info....
the Edge & Equinox are out- staying away from GM and have the MKX- whihc is a nedge + 5K- like the car- but gas guzzler -and the egde interior is teribble IMO...
biggest wants in features (besides warranty and reliability)-
room for car seats and dog in the rear.....
rear sensors are a biggie- forgot to mention- seems to be a dealer installed option at the level of CUV....
good MPG- 20 at least in mixed driving..
want a nice interior- good leather, astheticly pleasing...good features-useful display, good steror, bluetooth, i-pod hook-up (controlled through stereo if possible)
flat folding seats are important- for storage- i.e. trips to costco, house chores..
must be AWD- dealbreaker there...
the Sante fe rear vent is a cool feature for the golden retriever on hot days...
the Fuse feature is very similar to Sync- so that is a BIG plus..
power tailgate feature would be nice- don't think I'll get that here...
looking in the 25-28K range- before TTL...
guess that's a start...
#1559 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [newguy53]
Apr 25, 2010 (7:40 pm)
Interesting comment about blue tooth. I haven't looked at 2010 Outlanders, but the blue tooth module used to be standard on XLS and was a few hundred $ option to add the module on the LS (no LS models these days) . The steering wheel controls are there in all models (except apparently the ES), and you have to add the module and have the dealer enable it. If this has changed (requiring the whole NAV package) it's sad. As others may have mentioned a lot of add-on GPS have blue tooth , so you could do your own GPS/Blue tooth a lot cheaper going this route. Otherwise, if you really want the steering wheel controls I'd check again to see if you can add the module without the NAV package..(somehow I think the salesman wants to sell you a "package" for more when the service department can add just the option. I added my own factory fog lights after the fact to my LS and just had the dealer enable it for free since the alternate instructions for a user to program it didn't work)
Here is the module:
Here is someone pairing up his cell phone to a previously enabled module
#1560 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [newguy53]
Apr 25, 2010 (8:34 pm)
as I plan on begining a family...proof-reading would help...
Yes, and our FREE spell checker is helpful too!
SUVs and Smart Shopper
#1561 of 1581 Re: possible outlander buyer-hoping the forum can help [newguy53]
Apr 26, 2010 (7:05 am)
Old school Subaru owners just wanted AM for news and weather band. They were up in arms when the digital era arrived and they dropped weather band, LOL.
You can get Bluetooth in Outback without opting for Nav, I believe. Actually, you may want to add the Outback 2.5i Limited to your shopping list. Wards Auto gave the Outback the Interior of the Year for the Popular-Priced Car class for 2010. In the small SUV class they gave the nod to the Equinox.
The interior on the Forester Limited is fine to me. The leather is perforated so it breathes, and you don't end up with a sweaty back/legs, a problem with our old Mazda 626. The steering wheel and gear shift knob are also wrapped in real leather. Beyond that, the surfaces are hard, but that's par for this class. The moonroof is gigantic (26" long vs. 11.5" for the Outlander) and really brightens up in inside, makes it feel airy. It serves the front and rear passengers. My kids love it.
Also, on the Premium and Limited models, you get a fold-out tray in addition to the arm rest. That partition keeps my 2 kids at peace, and there is storage for toys and their portable video games.
We got a vent-mount, which locates the GPS close to the driver, within easy reach. Most of the time I toss a hat over the GPS and you can't even tell it's there. NYC is probably a higher crime area, but if you route the power source in to the HVAC vent you could hide it completely.
Let's see, what don't I like about it? Full disclosure...
* square cup holders. Fire the guy who thought of that.
* passenger seat is low and not height adjustable.