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Sedans Nissan Maxima 2009 Nissan Maxima
629 messages, Last post on Jul 03, 2009 at 9:35 AM
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 19, 2008 5:16 pm) I think the reason why MT got such a good result is that all the other tests I've seen were on early or pre-production cars last summer at release time. This is perhaps a more realistic test because it's not early production - and we don't really know for sure how they drive the cars during testing, do we? My car feels 5.9 seconds quick 0-60, and I've had lots of cars over time, some much faster than this. I realize this isn't proof either, but it's an honest impression. I agree with you for the most part about the CVT, except I would prefer a real AT or DSG over a manual box - I just don't want to shift anymore. However, the CVT in the 09 Maxima is not the same as the one in the previous generation car, they have improved it (mostly in the software, I think). I won't claim that it's a good substitution for (any) other transmission, but it isn't half bad either. For the most part in a car like this (which is NOT a sports car), it does a decent enough job. And, the manual mode works pretty well on the street, I enjoy it. I'm sure it would suck on the track or any other truly hard driving session, but I'm not going there anyway. Ideally Nissan would dump the CVT and give us a real tranny, but I doubt if that will happen any time soon. I still bought the car, CVT and all, and am very happy with it. I will say that my car has a sporting feel that other cars in that price range lack, particularly the Lexus GS350 - a nice car but no soul. The Maxima has a nice growl upon acceleration, and feels very flat and planted during cornering. Again, I won't compare it to a BMW or Porsche. Had I wanted to spend a lot more and was more concerned about the "sport" aspect, I would have gone with a true sports sedan like the rear-wheel drive 535i. You cannot beat the driving dynamics of a BMW or Porsche, but you have to be willing to pay for that German engineering. If BMW wasn't so interested in gouging you at every upgrade step ($63K is way too much for a loaded 535i), I'd probably be driving it today.
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 19, 2008 6:15 pm) With a gun to my head, even I'd probably take the CVT over Nissan's previous automatic transmssions. Although if and when I ever get tired of shifting, hopefully whatever I opt for will have a DSG option. Another point I will concede is that the Maxima isn't "sport" competitive anymore. Back in 1994, when I tested the 95 SE 5 speed against a 328i, it held up reasonably well. The BMW was definitely the better balanced and better handling but not dramatically so. The Maxima was just as quick and offered foul weather advantages. But that 15 year old comparison was when both cars had about 190 horsepower and weighed in at about 3,000 lbs. Since 1995, both the BMW and Maxima 500-600 lbs heavier and have 100+ horsepower. In 2008, there is no way the FWD setup of a Maxima - or any 3,600 lb car for that matter, can compete with the 335i. And, while the extra 110 horsepower of the 335i powering the rear wheels ttook the 0-60 times down by nearly 2 seconds, to former 911 range, the extra 100 horsepower in the Maxima makes a much more modest positive impact on acceleration, partly offset by more wheel hop and torque steer. The gap between a 2009 Maxima and 335i is far, far greater than that between a 1995 Maxima and 328i, to the point where even my desire for a 6-speed manual won't close that much of it. (Although I'll still keep asking). Lastly, not that $53k isn't also a big premium over the Maxima in price, but that was what I could pick up a custom ordered 535i 6-speed with sport, premium, cold weather packages, navigation system, hi-def radio and a few other goodies. The list is $60,500, the US invoice is $55k+/- and the European delivery price, at $1,500 over ED invoice is $52,660. It does require a trip to Germany, but if that was on your family vacation wish list, you get a free rental car while you are there.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 20, 2008 7:44 am) To compare the new Maxima to the 335i directly isn't really fair. The 335i weighs several hundred pounds less, has more horsepower, and (with similar equipment) costs many thousands more. I would also say that to compare the new Max directly to the 328i isn't fair to the 328i either for the same reasons (except price). Of course the handling dynamics, ride and steering of any 3 series will be superior to the Maxima. I agree with you that there is no way the Maxima can compare with the 335i. You seem to be rationalizing this evolutionary comparison based upon similar capabilities of the Maxima and 328i in 1995. Marketing forces, company budget, philosophy and goals, internally developed technology etc. all conspire to effect the internal evolution of a vehicle. The new 3 series has come a long way from 1995 in refinement and performance, and BMW is to be congratulated for what they have achieved. I doubt though that either BMW or Nissan would recognize a competitive relationship between the Maxima and 3 Series. It's really not useful to compare the 3 to the Max in any case; the 3 is a rear-wheel drive German sport sedan, the Max is a larger front-wheel drive Japanese entry-level luxury sedan with a sporting flair. A better comparison to the 3 series from Nissan would be the rear-wheel drive Infiniti G, which was developed by Nissan specifically to challenge BMW’s small sedan. The GT-R has demonstrated that Nissan is capable of world-beating performance at a relatively reasonable price, however to instill some of the same prowess in the Maxima would have brought the cost of the car beyond what its intended market (in the eyes of Nissan) is, all talk of 4DSC aside. Nissan made a choice to use the existing platform of the Altima instead of the rear-wheel drive G35/37 platform for the new Maxima, mostly for cost-saving benefits, but also to avoid infringing on the sales territory of the G sedan. This was a business decision made by the bean counters and senior management at Nissan, not by the automotive visionaries working in Nissan’s design groups. They took their instructions from above and did their best to implement them. I'm not aware of any wheel hop in the Maxima, and have not seen it mentioned in print or online until your post. There is still a bit of torque steer, but compared to my wife's 97 it's virtually nonexistent. The best comparisons to draw for the Max would be its competition in the segment: the Acura TL (fwd), Lexus ES350 and Toyota Avalon. However, the Lexus and Avalon are more focused towards luxury (the Lexus in particular is a floaty-boat) than sport. I would like to see a road test comparo between the front-wheel drive TL and the Max. My own impression after driving both more than once was that the Maxima’s ride is more controlled, and it has better acceleration than the TL (of course, it has more horsepower and similar weight). Both the interior and exterior are much nicer in the Maxima, and they are equals in technological amenities for the driver. The only thing the TL had going for it was its AT vs the CVT in the Max, though this wasn't enough to swing the deal for me. As with everything though, this is simply my perspective. Not being loyal to any one brand, however, had I liked the Acura more I would have bought one instead. Just wondering, have you driven a 2009 Maxima?
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 20, 2008 12:36 pm) Yes, but not extensively. Both times (July and October) were for about 30-40 miles as a loaner while my car was in for service. To be honest, I so strongly prefer a manual transmission for anything intended to be sporty, that I can't get past that issue. So my assessment of the 2009 Maxima probably isn't as objective as it should be. I agree with you, compared to cars such as the ES350 and Avalon, it looks pretty darn good. As for the TL, I have a 2004 6-speed, so again, I'm a bit biased and would never trade away my TL for a CVT Maxima.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 20, 2008 7:44 am) Today, the Maxima is not remotely competitive with the 3 series for the enthusaist oriented buyer. And, perhaps not surprisingly, in the intervening years, the Maxima has lost 75%+ of it's former sales volume. Even adding the Infiniti G leaves you with about 1/3-1/2 of the former Maxima buyers looking elsewhere. I happen to know the owners of a DC area Nissan dealer that also have a BMW dealership. They used to have a healthy amount of cross shopping between the Maxima and 3-series, now it is next to none. They would admit that, notwithstanding the GTR, Nissan as a company now competes far more with the Koreans than the Germans. What I find equally interesting is that during the same period Nissan managed to self destruct the Maxima as a 3 series competitor, Audi has resurected itself as a BMW competitor. They literally had to give away cars for several years after the Audi 5000 debacle, but are now charging upwards of $50,000 for an A6 and $80,000+ for an S6. If someone had told me that they would be able to do that 15 years ago, I would have lost my shorts on the bet. |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 20, 2008 4:07 pm) The 04 TL is a handsome car - it has an almost Italian look to it. I brokered an 05 for one of my clients and she is still driving it - she loves the car. As you are probably aware, those considering a new 2009 TL cannot get one with a manual transmission (at least right now - next year the more expensive SH-AWD version will have the option - and good for Honda for stepping up to the plate with that). Neither do they get a handsome design, IMHO. Had they decided to offer a manual transmission with the front-wheel drive TL, it would have given it a leg up on the 2009 Maxima for some folks. As it is though, and this is a carefully considered, although subjective opinion, I believe Nissan did a better job with the redesign of the Maxima than Honda did with the new TL. I wanted to like the new TL and approached it with a positive outlook, but after driving it found it wasn't at all compelling to me, particularly coming directly off a test drive of the Maxima about an hour before. As my dad used to say, that's what makes horse races.
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 22, 2008 8:20 pm) I've been reasonably happy with my 2004 TL 6-speed, but I would definitely not end up in a 2009 FWD TL automatic and probably not even a 2010 TL SHAWD 6-speed, thanks to a nearly 2-ton curb weight. If an automatic transmisison is the preference, I agree that the 2009 Maxima is a noticable improvement over the outgoing model and the TL is, for many folks, a styling step in the wrong direction. There is more chrome on the 2009 TL than on all the cars I've owned in the past 30 years combined. Happy Holidays.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 23, 2008 6:51 am) I do agree that the 09 TL is a step in the wrong direction, Acura has decided to mimic/imitate the outgoing Maxima that got so much criticism for styling including its front grill too. Although a more edgy type of design, the TL and outgoing Maxima have many similarities. The one place where the TL leaves the old maxima in the dust is the interior, TL wins that hands down. Saw an 09 Max today in Mystic Jade, very interesting color. Light enough to be easy to keep clean and yet dark enough to pick up a good shine with a nice coat of wax. It resembles Precision Grey but with a hint of green, certainly different and one I will consider. To all a Merry Christmas..Be safe..
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Replying to: out4cat (Dec 23, 2008 5:57 pm) Fortunately, I don't think the wind direction caused any inconsistency in my position. Which is, that for someone looking for a "sport" sedan, distaste for the styling of the TL would unlikely push them to buy a CVT Maxima. Unfortunately, I can now safely conclude that neither car offers the substance that a serious enthusiast would seek and even the addition of a 6-speed manual to the AWD TL may not overtake the obese curb weight negative. I would bend a little under the breezes to say that the styling miscue of the TL might benefit the Maxima for those looking for less of a sports sedan and more of an entry level near luxury sedan. But that's not the type of buyer I was addressing in post 300. And a Merry Christmas back to you... |
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Spirit, yes, I agree with your analysis that the Max doesn't compete with the 3 series. But you leave out the part about the G37, which many feel is the closest Japanes competitor to the 3 series as many people cross shop those 2. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The Max has its own strong points, such as space and value, that the 3 series cannot match. I feel there are more choices for the consumer now than 15 years ago; it's a great time to be a car enthusiast, whether one favors luxury over sport or vice versa... 
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