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Sedans Nissan Maxima 2009 Nissan Maxima
681 messages, Last post on Oct 08, 2009 at 11:05 AM
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Let me get this out of the way right now - the 2009 Maxima is not a sports car in the traditional sense. A proper sports car doesn’t have front wheel drive, and there would certainly be a manual transmission, or at minimum a properly set up automatic transmission or DSG, not a CVT. Most of the criticism leveled at the Max in the automotive journals is based on their lofty 4DSC claim, because it simply does not measure up to that bar in the areas that count. I think Nissan made a big mistake with that, and opened the Maxima up to needless criticism. But. This is only marketing, folks; the newly redesigned Maxima is what it is, and that is a well put together, sporty, entry-level luxury car. I spent 25 years in Silicon Valley working as a design engineer at technology companies like Cisco. During that time I had many battles with marketing folks who quite frankly live in another world. I learned over the years to take marketing with a grain of salt, and to look at products for what they really are. Marketing often consists of hype and half-truths, and so I treat it as such and basically ignore it. So, I urge you to ignore the “4 Door Sport Car” moniker and give the Maxima a fair chance if you are considering an entry level luxury car with a sporty feel, and decent acceleration and handling. Anyone who is looking for a real “sports car” should look elsewhere, and I’d bet they most probably are anyway. |
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I’ve seen some recent posts that claim acceleration figures for the 09 Maxima, and also the BMW 328i and an older 90s model Maxima. As I’ve driven all of the cars mentioned and didn’t feel the claims were accurate based on my own seat-of-the-pants impressions, I went out and did a bit of research. I’m no stranger to older Maximas, as my wife had a 1997 Max (purchased new in 97) until recently, and it was my daily driver for most of the past year. I must confess that until the 2009 model came out, I wasn’t much of a Maxima fan. I think the 97 was a good car, and pretty fast too, if you could ignore the huge amount of torque steer. It has 100 less horesepower than the 2009, but is also much lighter (3,001 lbs curb weight for the 1997 vs. 3,602 for the 2009) In the Jan 2009 issue of Motor Trend, the professional testers report a 5.9 second 0-60 MPH time with the new Max, and ¼ mile time of 14.4  98.6 MPH. www.theautochannel.com reported a 0-60 MPH time for the1997 Maxima at 7.5 seconds, and ¼ mile time of 17.0 84 MPH Comparing these two cars is like apples and oranges, the new Maxima with its 600 lb weight disadvantage (and 100 horsepower advantage) absolutely mops up the 1997 Maxima though. BMW 328i vs 2009 Maxima I was unable to find a test of the 2009 328i in any of the magazines, but Edmunds.com tested the 2008 328i. Acceleration results were: 6.4 seconds 0-60 MPH and 14.6 94.7 MPH. Again, the Maxima wins the drag race by a full half second in 0-60, but the BMW narrows the gap in the quarter mile. The bottom line is that the Max is faster, but again the weight differential (the BMW is 250 lbs lighter at 3,362) and horsepower difference (the Max has 60 HP more) make these two cars difficult to compare directly. I will readily admit that the driving dynamics of the BMW will be superior to the Nissan, but we are only talking about acceleration here. 2009 Acura TL vs. 2009 Maxima In my opinion the best direct comparison is between the new TL and the Maxima, as both are similarly sized front wheel drive sporty sedans, at a similar price point. I was unable to find a 0-60 time for the front wheel drive model, but the Jan 2009 issue of Motor Trend lists the higher performance TL SH-AWD model at 6.2 seconds to 60 and 14.7 97.2 MPH for the ¼ mile. This car has 15 more horsepower than the Max, yet weighs a lot more at 3954, so this is again not a good direct comparison given the weight and horsepower differential. The front wheel drive model weighs about the same as the Max, but has less horsepower, so I assume that the end result would be the same. Bottom line though is the 2009 Maxima again wins the drag race. Of course, when considering a new vehicle purchase the performance specs aren't nearly as important as your own driving impressions - and anyone considering a vehicle like the new Maxima won't be at the track or drag strip, so ultimately how the car feels to you in everyday driving should dictate your decision. I believe that all of the cars I mentioned in this post are excellent choices, by the way.
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 19, 2008 12:55 pm) www.theautochannel.com reported a 0-60 MPH time for the1997 Maxima at 7.5 seconds, and ¼ mile time of 17.0 84 MPH I would be careful about comparing acceleration times from different sources. They all have their own testing methods. Motor Trend, if I'm not mistaken, has a staff of former boy racers that (on non-manual transmission cars) hold the brake while depressing the accelerator so as to "launch" the car for maximum acceleration. That makes for good numbers that sell magazines, but doesn't exactly conform to the way I drive. Coincidentally, Nissan has had early transmission failure issues in their GT-R, and has instructed owners that the repeated use of the built in launch control feature will invalidate the warranty. I still have the Car and Driver June 1994 issue in which the test the new 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed manual. Their results are 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, 1/4 mile in 15.2 seconds at 92 mph. And no, that didn't require a 5,000 rpm clutch dump and is easily replicated by responsible drivers. I will grant you that the 1995-1999 Maxima fitted with an automatic transmission was a dog. But I still don't think the CVT is close to what a short throw 6-speed manual could achieve in the same vehicle. Not in performance, not in fuel efficiency and certainly not in driving enjoyment.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 19, 2008 4:16 pm) I think the reason why MT got such a good result is that all the other tests I've seen were on early or pre-production cars last summer at release time. This is perhaps a more realistic test because it's not early production - and we don't really know for sure how they drive the cars during testing, do we? My car feels 5.9 seconds quick 0-60, and I've had lots of cars over time, some much faster than this. I realize this isn't proof either, but it's an honest impression. I agree with you for the most part about the CVT, except I would prefer a real AT or DSG over a manual box - I just don't want to shift anymore. However, the CVT in the 09 Maxima is not the same as the one in the previous generation car, they have improved it (mostly in the software, I think). I won't claim that it's a good substitution for (any) other transmission, but it isn't half bad either. For the most part in a car like this (which is NOT a sports car), it does a decent enough job. And, the manual mode works pretty well on the street, I enjoy it. I'm sure it would suck on the track or any other truly hard driving session, but I'm not going there anyway. Ideally Nissan would dump the CVT and give us a real tranny, but I doubt if that will happen any time soon. I still bought the car, CVT and all, and am very happy with it. I will say that my car has a sporting feel that other cars in that price range lack, particularly the Lexus GS350 - a nice car but no soul. The Maxima has a nice growl upon acceleration, and feels very flat and planted during cornering. Again, I won't compare it to a BMW or Porsche. Had I wanted to spend a lot more and was more concerned about the "sport" aspect, I would have gone with a true sports sedan like the rear-wheel drive 535i. You cannot beat the driving dynamics of a BMW or Porsche, but you have to be willing to pay for that German engineering. If BMW wasn't so interested in gouging you at every upgrade step ($63K is way too much for a loaded 535i), I'd probably be driving it today.
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 19, 2008 5:15 pm) With a gun to my head, even I'd probably take the CVT over Nissan's previous automatic transmssions. Although if and when I ever get tired of shifting, hopefully whatever I opt for will have a DSG option. Another point I will concede is that the Maxima isn't "sport" competitive anymore. Back in 1994, when I tested the 95 SE 5 speed against a 328i, it held up reasonably well. The BMW was definitely the better balanced and better handling but not dramatically so. The Maxima was just as quick and offered foul weather advantages. But that 15 year old comparison was when both cars had about 190 horsepower and weighed in at about 3,000 lbs. Since 1995, both the BMW and Maxima 500-600 lbs heavier and have 100+ horsepower. In 2008, there is no way the FWD setup of a Maxima - or any 3,600 lb car for that matter, can compete with the 335i. And, while the extra 110 horsepower of the 335i powering the rear wheels ttook the 0-60 times down by nearly 2 seconds, to former 911 range, the extra 100 horsepower in the Maxima makes a much more modest positive impact on acceleration, partly offset by more wheel hop and torque steer. The gap between a 2009 Maxima and 335i is far, far greater than that between a 1995 Maxima and 328i, to the point where even my desire for a 6-speed manual won't close that much of it. (Although I'll still keep asking). Lastly, not that $53k isn't also a big premium over the Maxima in price, but that was what I could pick up a custom ordered 535i 6-speed with sport, premium, cold weather packages, navigation system, hi-def radio and a few other goodies. The list is $60,500, the US invoice is $55k+/- and the European delivery price, at $1,500 over ED invoice is $52,660. It does require a trip to Germany, but if that was on your family vacation wish list, you get a free rental car while you are there.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 20, 2008 6:44 am) To compare the new Maxima to the 335i directly isn't really fair. The 335i weighs several hundred pounds less, has more horsepower, and (with similar equipment) costs many thousands more. I would also say that to compare the new Max directly to the 328i isn't fair to the 328i either for the same reasons (except price). Of course the handling dynamics, ride and steering of any 3 series will be superior to the Maxima. I agree with you that there is no way the Maxima can compare with the 335i. You seem to be rationalizing this evolutionary comparison based upon similar capabilities of the Maxima and 328i in 1995. Marketing forces, company budget, philosophy and goals, internally developed technology etc. all conspire to effect the internal evolution of a vehicle. The new 3 series has come a long way from 1995 in refinement and performance, and BMW is to be congratulated for what they have achieved. I doubt though that either BMW or Nissan would recognize a competitive relationship between the Maxima and 3 Series. It's really not useful to compare the 3 to the Max in any case; the 3 is a rear-wheel drive German sport sedan, the Max is a larger front-wheel drive Japanese entry-level luxury sedan with a sporting flair. A better comparison to the 3 series from Nissan would be the rear-wheel drive Infiniti G, which was developed by Nissan specifically to challenge BMW’s small sedan. The GT-R has demonstrated that Nissan is capable of world-beating performance at a relatively reasonable price, however to instill some of the same prowess in the Maxima would have brought the cost of the car beyond what its intended market (in the eyes of Nissan) is, all talk of 4DSC aside. Nissan made a choice to use the existing platform of the Altima instead of the rear-wheel drive G35/37 platform for the new Maxima, mostly for cost-saving benefits, but also to avoid infringing on the sales territory of the G sedan. This was a business decision made by the bean counters and senior management at Nissan, not by the automotive visionaries working in Nissan’s design groups. They took their instructions from above and did their best to implement them. I'm not aware of any wheel hop in the Maxima, and have not seen it mentioned in print or online until your post. There is still a bit of torque steer, but compared to my wife's 97 it's virtually nonexistent. The best comparisons to draw for the Max would be its competition in the segment: the Acura TL (fwd), Lexus ES350 and Toyota Avalon. However, the Lexus and Avalon are more focused towards luxury (the Lexus in particular is a floaty-boat) than sport. I would like to see a road test comparo between the front-wheel drive TL and the Max. My own impression after driving both more than once was that the Maxima’s ride is more controlled, and it has better acceleration than the TL (of course, it has more horsepower and similar weight). Both the interior and exterior are much nicer in the Maxima, and they are equals in technological amenities for the driver. The only thing the TL had going for it was its AT vs the CVT in the Max, though this wasn't enough to swing the deal for me. As with everything though, this is simply my perspective. Not being loyal to any one brand, however, had I liked the Acura more I would have bought one instead. Just wondering, have you driven a 2009 Maxima?
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 20, 2008 11:36 am) Yes, but not extensively. Both times (July and October) were for about 30-40 miles as a loaner while my car was in for service. To be honest, I so strongly prefer a manual transmission for anything intended to be sporty, that I can't get past that issue. So my assessment of the 2009 Maxima probably isn't as objective as it should be. I agree with you, compared to cars such as the ES350 and Avalon, it looks pretty darn good. As for the TL, I have a 2004 6-speed, so again, I'm a bit biased and would never trade away my TL for a CVT Maxima.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 20, 2008 6:44 am) Today, the Maxima is not remotely competitive with the 3 series for the enthusaist oriented buyer. And, perhaps not surprisingly, in the intervening years, the Maxima has lost 75%+ of it's former sales volume. Even adding the Infiniti G leaves you with about 1/3-1/2 of the former Maxima buyers looking elsewhere. I happen to know the owners of a DC area Nissan dealer that also have a BMW dealership. They used to have a healthy amount of cross shopping between the Maxima and 3-series, now it is next to none. They would admit that, notwithstanding the GTR, Nissan as a company now competes far more with the Koreans than the Germans. What I find equally interesting is that during the same period Nissan managed to self destruct the Maxima as a 3 series competitor, Audi has resurected itself as a BMW competitor. They literally had to give away cars for several years after the Audi 5000 debacle, but are now charging upwards of $50,000 for an A6 and $80,000+ for an S6. If someone had told me that they would be able to do that 15 years ago, I would have lost my shorts on the bet. |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 20, 2008 3:07 pm) The 04 TL is a handsome car - it has an almost Italian look to it. I brokered an 05 for one of my clients and she is still driving it - she loves the car. As you are probably aware, those considering a new 2009 TL cannot get one with a manual transmission (at least right now - next year the more expensive SH-AWD version will have the option - and good for Honda for stepping up to the plate with that). Neither do they get a handsome design, IMHO. Had they decided to offer a manual transmission with the front-wheel drive TL, it would have given it a leg up on the 2009 Maxima for some folks. As it is though, and this is a carefully considered, although subjective opinion, I believe Nissan did a better job with the redesign of the Maxima than Honda did with the new TL. I wanted to like the new TL and approached it with a positive outlook, but after driving it found it wasn't at all compelling to me, particularly coming directly off a test drive of the Maxima about an hour before. As my dad used to say, that's what makes horse races.
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Replying to: redbull (Dec 22, 2008 7:20 pm) I've been reasonably happy with my 2004 TL 6-speed, but I would definitely not end up in a 2009 FWD TL automatic and probably not even a 2010 TL SHAWD 6-speed, thanks to a nearly 2-ton curb weight. If an automatic transmisison is the preference, I agree that the 2009 Maxima is a noticable improvement over the outgoing model and the TL is, for many folks, a styling step in the wrong direction. There is more chrome on the 2009 TL than on all the cars I've owned in the past 30 years combined. Happy Holidays.
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