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Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
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Replying to: british_rover (Mar 15, 2008 1:01 pm) |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 14, 2008 8:45 pm) I'm not the only one either, since the only source that claims a 7:40 time for the SLR is Autobild, and even they admit the time is improbable and unofficial; not meant to be taken seriously. In other words, the two-ton SLR making it around the Ring in 7:40 is as unlikely and as scientific as the Nissan GT-R making it around the Ring in 7:35. We can't believe anything the mfr does without at least one witness. Here's Autobild, on the SLR's 7:40 time and I quote: "Quite close at the limit lies the values which drove walter Roehrl with the Porsche and Klaus Ludwig with the Mercedes during testing and which just as unofficial is as meaningful: Ludwig created with the SLR impressing 7,40 minutes - and Roehrl drosch the Carrera GT in hardly conceivable 7,28 around the course." And it all makes sense. A two-ton slower luxury GT car gets 7:40 when that same car stripped of everything to bring weight doen to 2,900 pounds gets about the same result? C'mon, now! That's as believeable as the 7:35 time for the GT-R! I could find no more on this SLR achieving the 7:40 time any where else except this one magazine report: link title This is far more realistic, but still a little optimistic, IMHO: "7:52 --- 157.12 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/04)"
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 15, 2008 5:17 pm) That SLR time is an official time, not a munufacturer claim. So is the Carrera GT. So its not unlikely and unscientific. Welcome to reality. I don't care what moron wrote that quote you are using, the Carrera GT ran a 7:32 officially. And the SLR McLaren is a direct competitor to the Carrera GT in price and performance. The Corvette was never the fastest car out there, it is not the fastest car out there, and it will likely never be the fastest car out there. There is no way you will be able to eliminate all the cars that are faster than the Corvette on weight alone. Look at the Bugatti Veyron (4200lbs), the Mercedes CLK DTM AMG (3700lbs), Porsche Turbo (3600lbs) I picked the SLR because it is very similar design to the Corvette, only heavier and faster. The SLR is faster than the Z06 in every single recorded aspect. Acceleration, top speed, braking, cornering. It is a far more advanced car despite its weight and high price. If they put as advanced an engine, suspension, or aerodynamics into the Z06 it would be going faster than the SLR, but they didn't. That would have driven the price up. If you want to debate the GT-R's ability to outpace 7:40, thats fine because we have no official time. But no, you can't go back in time and say every official time that outpaces the Z06 is false. That's rediculous. Don't bother trying to be scientific or realistic, because you are only speculating and guessing. The official times stay official. And since the GT-R also is faster than a Z06 in acceleration, braking, and slalom, your theories about weight aren't really getting you anywhere on a racetrack.
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Has always been one of our favorite past times. I can remember all of the bench racing that took place in the press and by the letters to the editors when we were about to to get the NSX. Road and track explained all the reasons this would be the super car of the future. When we got it we didn't get everything the bench said we would. ( I would still love one however.) By the time it hit the highway in the US Porsche and Corvette pumped up their game a bit. Then we were told that the Skyline was coming and once again super car was hinted at. We got the G-35. Great car but not all that Super. Bench racers were wrong again. The GT-R may or may not live up to the hype but what looks good on paper doesn't always do as well on the track. We will see what the track shows in just a few months but I don't think Porsche, Corvette, Audi, or BMW are willing to give up just yet. The second question we might ask is why Renault has decided to allow Nissan to send this car to America just now? we might be glad they did but is it too late? Nissan had a very successful sports car with a twin turbo years ago that was dropped. The 300ZX was one of the most popular sports cars of its time. Now Carlos has decided to bring a car to the US as our economy is in the tank, the dollar is at an all time low and fuel is reaching 4 bucks a gallon? Last time this happened Nissan pulled every sporty model they made from our shores and left us with a Maxima, Sentra, and a slow selling small truck. I wonder if it could happen again?
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 15, 2008 8:07 pm) No where did I ever say the Z06 is "the fastest car, ever." I said it's faster than the GT3 around the Ring. I even suggested it will blow the doors off the GT-R because we all know the GT-R's claim of 7:35 is a misleading pipe-dream promoted by a Nissan drivetrain engineer (it needs to be mentioned that the crack cocaine epidemic is now sweeping Japan). But nowhere did I say that the Vette is the fastest around the Ring. I also said that the Mclaren SLR's time of 7:40 is also a pipe dream. This was substantiated by the only (please read the definition of the word "only" in the dictionary before proceeding) only article ever to claim that 7:40 figure. In other words, the very people that ever claimed a 7:40 time for the Mclaren were the same exact people that said the 7:40 time was "unofficial". Go back to my last post and re-read it, with the links! This is not too hard to comperhend. I do not understand why you are having such a problem with it! "The SLR is faster than the Z06 in every single recorded aspect. Acceleration, top speed, braking, cornering. It is a far more advanced car despite its weight and high price." More stuff I don't understand. Now I don't want this to turn into a Z06 versus SLR debate (but isn't it funny that the $77,000 Corvette seems to get compared to $300,000 exotics all the time? Why is that?), but Road and Track says the Z06 gets .99g on the skidpad versus .97 for the Mclaren SLR. Also, the Vette gets "Excellent" (x3) for brake control, brake feel and brake overall. Contrasted, is the SLR, which gets "Excellent" for brake control, "good" for brake feel and "Very Good" for brake overall. Furthermore, the Corvette gets "mild understeer" for both lateral acceleration and skidpad, versus "moderate understeer" for the SLR in both categories. Both the Corvette and the Mclaren SLR get 69.6 thru the 700-foot slalom. So much for the Mclaren SLR beating the Corvette in every performance category... With all things being nearly identical (with exception to the Corvette's better cornering grip, steering feel, neutral chassis control and better brakes), we should expect the SLR to fall at or near/behind where the Z06 falls on the Nordchliefe. But it doesn't. In the only article avaliable to us (the Autobild article), the journalist himself admits an unofficial and improbable time of 7:40, not the 7:55 that everyone else is officially getting in this very heavy car. If you're getting angry reading this, then click on any links I presented, read the words "only" and "official" in the dictionary so you know what these two words mean, then come back and re-read this post. I guarantee you you will not be angry anymore. Road and Track test the SLR Mclaren Road and Track test the Corvette Z06 "If you want to debate the GT-R's ability to outpace 7:40, thats fine because we have no official time. But no, you can't go back in time and say every official time that outpaces the Z06 is false. That's rediculous. Don't bother trying to be scientific or realistic, because you are only speculating and guessing." I'm not being scientific or realistic; I'm being reasonable. On second thought, I guess I am being scientific and realistic, as well. Question is, are you? .
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Replying to: boaz47 (Mar 16, 2008 3:30 pm) In other words, Japan was not only 'wowing' the world with top-end consumer electronics from Sony and Mitsubishi, and building streetbikes such as the Kawasaki Ninja that could go from 0-100 in like two microseconds, but they were selling terrific economy and family cars to the rest of the world, as well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to imagine just how fantastic Japanese sportscars would be once they were brought to market... For all this anticipation, people were speculating very positively on the Japanese sportscars (NSX; 300ZX). After all, Honda just released the award-winning Acura legend in 1986... But times are different now. We know the potential and the limitations of the Japanese auto industry. Japanese products have lost their luster and have been replaced by American X-Box 360's, American Intel microproccessors and American Hewlett Pacard personal computers. Japanese auto industry (Toyota) is recording more recalls than any other country, save for Germany (Volkswagen). Their hybrid efforts are being smashed by General Motors series-hybrid designs. Their once innovative Honda Motor Company struggles with ancient 5-speed automatic transmissions and crude SOHC V6's that don't even have cam phasing on the exhaust side yet. Japanese banks have since fallen from grace and their economy is still in a chronic recession. The fanfare and anticipation towards Japanese sportscars is no longer there; nothing Japan is producing is new or innovative any more. ...This reads almost like something out of the Book of Isaiah, lol... .
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 16, 2008 4:39 pm) Great plan  Let's get back to the original question (see the title of this discussion). |
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