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Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lemmer (Mar 13, 2008 6:21 am) The fastest lap time for the GT-R was (a rumored) 7:38, and a confirmed 8:13 earlier in the day. Please understand that the GT-R was driven soley by the Chief Engineer Kazutoshi using slit-cut tires that are not stock rubber. I don't see how "early expert reports" could have even suggested the possibility of a 7:15 lap time in a 3,800 pound car that's longer than a Dodge Viper by about three inches and only has 480 horsepower. If anything, I'm surprised at the 7:55 average. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the GT-R beats just about every mass-produced sportscar out there on the Ring under incliment weather conditions, however. From the following list, please note that the Corvette Z06 outperforms just about every mass-produced sportscar sold today on the Ring, including the Porsche GT3 RS and the Gallardo Superleggra/Murcielegra. link title for Ring lap times The GT-R will go on sale at a cost of $75,000. Will it be worth it? Probably.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 5:38 pm) However, I imagine Car and Driver will print something like this: "The GT-R was one helluva fast car, but step into the cocpit and the car's supercar demeaner ...Changes. It has this videogame dashboard designed by the same guy who designed videogames for the Sony Playstation, and it shows. Click on a button and an array of Christmas tree lights light up for the sole purpose of wowing adolesent teenagers. This gimmick on wheels, upon pulling up to our driveway, had a long line of teeny-boppers slurping down their ice cream cones and Big Gulps, saying, "Wow!" and "Neato, dude!" after we opened the door and exited the vehicle. "Rad! That dashboard looks just like the dashboard on my car I play on Grand Theft Auto!" piped another kid. Far from a serious driver's environment, we conclude that the dashboard and interior serves no other purpose than to elicit excitement from the bubble-gum set..." Remember when Buick came out with the 1986 Riviera with its touchscreen intrface? They called it a gimmick then, that only wowed teenagers. Now look at all the high-end cars. They all have touchscreens in them. |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 13, 2008 2:05 pm) You forget that the first production car ever to lap the Ring in under 8 minutes was arguably an R33 GT-R in 1997. That car weighed 3400lbs and had only 302hp. That version was not the lightest or the most powerful car of its day I realize you don't have much knowledge or faith in AWD as a performance enhancer, but that is what made up the difference to make the Skyline GT-R one of the fastest cars of its day, period. The R35 weighs 12% more, but has 60% more power and an even more advanced AWD system than the R33 . 7:38 doesn't sound that unlikely. Lets wait a few months and see if the chief engineer was lying or wrong, whathaveyou. There will be more races. Besides, there is an official time of 7:53 up there already by the editor of SportAuto Magazine on a damp track. That guy is certainly unbiased. Half the official records on the Ring are his. If he says it did 7:53 damp, I'm pretty sure it can do 7:43 dry. I'd get used to hearing more official reports of GT-Rs putting in sub-8's on the Ring. And at some point a good enough driver will probably get an official 7:38. If it sells for $70K, its very much worth it. If it sells for $90K+, buy a Vette. They are going to be so close in both price and performance, if you have to pay extra for a GT-R the Vette is easily the better value. |
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 13, 2008 3:33 pm) "The 722 GT is a tuned version of the SLR 722 which is developed for a one-make racing series. Under the body, the car has shed 300 kg and reduced its dry weight to 1300 kg (2866 lb). The engine remains in relatively stock specification but now produces 500 kW (680 bhp) and 830 N·m (612 ft·lbf) at 1.75 bar (175 kPa) boost. Inside, the car is stripped out with only the essential functions being controlled from a carbon fiber binnacle. Each costs upward of €750,000..." So notice that it was a 2,900 pound car that beat the Z06 Corvette on the Ring, not the 3,890 behemoth you indicated. This further substantiates my assertion that the 7:55 time for the GT-R (a 3,800 pound car) is a liberal estimate. Please also note that a $600,000 car that weighs 2,900 pounds and is fabricated with carbon fiber throughout barely beat the $77,000 Vette around the Ring. P/S: THe C5 Vette came out in 1997. It was not only more powerful than the R33, but weighed 100 pounds less. Do you know if that Vette was tested on the Ring in that year?
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 13, 2008 6:17 pm) The fastest I can see a C5 Vette going is a 7:56. And that was in 2004 with a C5 Z06. About the same as a C6 Z51. Even being 100hp senior to the GT-R and 100lbs lighter, the C5 was not noticeably superior to the R33. Neither is the C6 Z51. That is the difference that the GT-R's AWD system makes. You can just hand over a massive power/weight advantage to the competition so long as you have more traction. 1.5x, 2x whatever. But we're not talking 305hp R33 anymore, we're talking 480hp R35. The last generation GT-R had the same performance as the fastest production Corvettes at the time, and I assure you so does the R35. You are correct that the 2900lb 722 GT ran a 7:38. However, the stock SLR McLaren ran a 7:40. Here's the quote: At the Nurburgring testings, the 722 GT made a time of only 7:38 minutes. It seems that the car has some problems with the transmission and with the new running brake assembly, this is why it couldn’t get a better time than the SLR. Please note that a 4000lb behemoth still beat the Z06 around the ring with a time of 7:40. And if it weren't for said 'transmission troubles', the 2900lb carbon fiber sled would have absolutely demolished both of them. Can't verify that of course. As for its high pricetag, that's what they get for trying to get a heavy RWD car go faster around the Ring. Nissan has always cheated and used computers and AWD. It makes taking a heavy car around the ring faster cheaper and easier than what it took to get a RWD SLR to do it. But hey, more fun for the bargain buyer. So really, we're back to 7:55 being a highly conservative claim, since the GT-R did about that 10 years ago. 7:15 might be a liberal estimate. If I had to guess at a logical best time, I'd say.... 7:35. And we already have unconfirmed reports of that happening. |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 12, 2008 4:23 pm) Well that makes it official you have no idea what you are talking about. A V6 is a cost cutting measure and thats it. The inline 6 is a better design but costs more money. You can get a low center of gravity with an inline 6 simply by mounting it at an angle like BMW does. |
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 13, 2008 3:33 pm) Was that the one they would let nobody near because everyone new it was heavily modfiied, and no one who tested an actual stock version could come within 30 seconds of?
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Replying to: sensai (Mar 14, 2008 8:17 am) AutoCar The rest is speculation made up by skeptics. I think its funny that Chevy's manufacturer claim of 7:59 with the C6 Z51 wasn't disputed. Racing is 99% driver ability anyway. Sure you have to be in a car capable of making the time. But look at how often the Z06 has been tested, and how no other driver has come close to 7:42. One lucky guy, one good day on the track. 13 miles without being able to make a mistake. Sure, anyone who buys the Z06 can pretend its a 7:42 car in their hands, but thats not really true is it. I'm not particularly biased one way or the other. If the R34 was being sold in the US when the Z06 came out, I'd argue in favor of the Corvette being a notch above. But technically since the R32 was developed in Japan in the late '80's, halfway through the product lifecycle of the C4 Corvette, the GT-R was actually years ahead of the Corvette. Then the C6 Corvette Z06 took it to the next level. I'm trying to please mutiple arguments by saying I think they are on equal footing, but if history repeats itself the GT-R is indeed poised to take the competition to the next level. WAIT AND SEE! Nobody is going to be proven right in a forum. |
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with the same magazine (German magazine Sport Auto) testing the cars: New GT-R: 7:55 Current Z-06: 7:49 911 GT3 (997): 7:48 In the interest of full disclosure of any bias, I'll tell you that I currently own a Porsche and have previously owned two Z's.
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Replying to: lemmer (Mar 14, 2008 9:33 am) We already know of another 3,800lb+ car that has done a 7:40. There's also a 4200lb car that did it in the same time (yes, with 1000hp, but it still has to be able to corner) Bottom line, weight isn't everything. I actually prefer lighter cars, but a fact's a fact. The R35 is fast. 7:50 is confirmed, in the winter of its release. The times are only going to get faster from here. If the R35 car hits 7:42:9 exactly I'm going to LMAO.
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