Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
|
|---|---|
|
The GT-R is "mopping up" the 911 and Z06 according to the Engineer in charge of the GT-R's design, not by any objective journalist. The GT-R is just an overbloated, 3,900 monstrosity that's tiny yet weighs almost as much as the Empire State Building. It gets its 0-60 figure by being an AWD chassis and that's it. The Vette has so much power that you induce wheelspin. People are getting 0-60 MPH times in the high 2's after Sonoco Blue is poured on the asphalt. There's no way a heavy car like the GT-R will have the handling characteristics of a Vette or even a GT3 for that matter. Front-end weight bias is just too much for delicate control of steering, and it's just enough to numb the experience. I can see the GT-R competing against other front-end heavy cars like the M3 but not the Z06 or GT3. The GT3 and Z06 are lithe, agile Oympic athletes compared to the porky GT-R... You need to do a little more homework. There is becoming a plethora of tests by objective journalists in which the GT-R 'mops up' the Z06, the GT3, and the Porsche turbo. Autoblog Fifth Gear Inside Line And there are plenty more where those came from. Yes, it is heavy, but they've done such a pheonominal job with the AWD system that it more than makes up for its weight. Currently, no Corvette or Porsche in production stands a chance on a track. Yes, the Z06 gets 0-60 in the high 2's with extra grip added. But those are rediculously skewed conditions. There are no doubt conditions in which the GT-R could make up some time as well. Keep in mind, the C6 Z06 has been out for over a year and the GT-R isn't even in the states yet, and the real pros of drag racing haven't gotten a hold of it yet. And already journalists are getting better 0-60 times than they can in a Z06 on the first try.
|
|
|
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 3:58 am)
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: lemmer (Mar 10, 2008 5:22 am) They gave up on the aging 3.0L V6 coupe and focused on the 2.0L I-4 sedan. The Evolution has proved to be a very capable and fast car, and it is even more of a techno-geek mobile. The FQ-400 is more than a match for anything in its price range. The VR4 fans just switched to sedans, the EVOs and the STIs, and a few others. And they are increasing in numbers. This new GT-R is going to be wildly popular, until Porsche and Corvette come up with something comperable. Nobody gets bored with the fastest production car in its class.
|
|
|
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 7:01 am) And how about resale? Price a '94 911 versus a '94 VR4. Started out new maybe 50% more, now worth 3-5 times as much. That being said, I have higher hopes for the GT-R. I am just not ready to jump on the bandwagon before they even roll them out.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: lemmer (Mar 10, 2008 7:46 am) Could it be that in 1992 the Corvette got the LT1 engine and got bumped up by 50hp? And that this 911 you speak of was modified with a lighter chassis? And you aren't really making any point with the resale values. There are still VR4s in good condition that go for 2/3 of their original purchase price. That's because its still a good platform, can be tuned-to-race at 600hp by an expert, or makes a great collectors item. And what '911' are you talking about? A used 911 could be anything up to a 70K 993 GT2. So where exactly are the 300ZX and the Supra now? I'll tell you, they got replaced by more advanced sedans, Evo and STI, just like the VR4. Same market, same fate. The GT-R is what the 3000GT could have been with 10 years of improved technology. And guess what's currently mopping up the competition? I already said I expect Porsche and Corvette to make a comeback. But the GT-R is raising the bar again.
|
|
|
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 8:35 am) Those and the 3000GT got caught in the mid-90s vise of escalating insurance on one side and the appreciating yen on the other side. The NSX was always a top-dollar, low-volume halo car, and it did exactly what Honda expected of it.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: bumpy (Mar 10, 2008 9:17 am) I'm actually a big fan of that entire era of twin-turbo V6s. 300ZX, Supra, VR4. They could have all been great performers had they stuck around. Oh well, more stagetime for Nissan.
|
|
|
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 9:33 am) Toyota pretty much gave up on the sports & GT market. The 300ZX got replaced (eventually) by the 350Z, a simpler non-turbo car. The RX-7 was replaced (eventually) by the far simpler non-turbo RX-8. See the minor trend going on here? Any chimp can run heavy boost on a crappy car and brag about its performance. It didn't work on Porsche 924s in the 70s, Renault Fuegos and Chrysler K cars in the '80s or various Mitsubishis in the '90s. I'll reiterate that I am not convinced this is happening with Nissan now. I am just a little skeptical.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: lemmer (Mar 10, 2008 10:11 am) You have to admit, there were plenty of years that the Corvette was just 'plugging along.' I think that mid-70's to mid-90's Corvettes just should never have existed. Honestly, if they just let it die when the first emissions controls took it down to ~200hp I would have tipped my hat to them. And if they resurrected it in its current form, it would have been all the more exciting. But remember how the 3000GT's life story went. Introduced; put up a fight, competition fights back, 3000GT is updated, is epitomized in 1997-99 model year, and then die off before they become obsolete. Thats the exact same story for the Supra and the 300ZX. We'll always remember them as never having 'plugged along' for 20 years. I don't think Mitsu is in the right place right now to develop a supercar. Acura and Toyota might have something special for us. If the GT-R is not your cup of tea, we are only a few years from having more variety. If your comparison is right, we are at the very beginning of another 10-year battle between GT-R, NSX, Supra, Corvette, 911, and anyone else that wants to join the party. And the last model year of the 3000GT was significantly better than the first, so look for the 2019 GT-R to blow the doors off the current one. 10-year life span? Who cares, this is going to be bliss.
|
|
|
Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 10:45 am) In cars I consider great, quite often the NA version is considered equally fun to drive as compared to the turbo version. This can be argued with 300s, RX-7s, MR-2s, 911s and so on. I don't know what any of this means to the GT-R other than technology and all out performance isn't the end all be all when measuring the worth of sports & GT cars. That being said, I sure would love to lap a track or even just drive down the street in a GT-R.
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Nissan GT-R
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
