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Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 8:51 am) IIRC, the 1990 R32 NISMO version was 3400-something, but the R34s did get close to 3700. As for horsepower, once the factory detuning was corrected they put up about the same numbers that the R35 has now (although one would hope that the R35 also has a lot more in tank, given 45% more displacement to work with).
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Replying to: bumpy (Mar 12, 2008 9:20 am) Indeed you are correct about the weight. I unfortunately clicked this page and it looks as if they have the R32 and R34 weights inverted. One certainly could get more power out of the old I-6. I'm a fan of inline engines and wish they had stuck with it actually. Time will tell if they left this V6 some untapped potential. I'd like to see a ~500hp R34 go up against an R35. Would be interesting to see those results.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 9:32 am)
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Replying to: bumpy (Mar 12, 2008 10:20 am) I heard it was actually fuel ecomomy related. Much the same with the VR4, the main reason I keep seeing for the Japanese GT class discontinuation was that they couldn't get it to meet future emissions requirements. Such is everything these days... BMW doesn't seem to be doing so bad with the I-6 twin-turbo in a front-midships design.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 10:30 am) I don't think any 3er has ever been front-midships. The 335i doesn't look like it in this pic: 
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Replying to: bumpy (Mar 12, 2008 11:19 am) From that picture, I would say it is hard to tell exactly where the balance point of the engine is without x-ray vision. "Front-Midship" is a Nissan term, and I should not have applied it to BMW cars. But despite their inline-6 engine, the 3-series does achieve a near 50/50 weight distribution, even on AWD models, as did Nissan with the R32-R34. So it don't think its entirely a weight issue.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 10:30 am) I have no idea what prompted you to post this. BMW races in F1, where the engine architecture is a V-10 not an I6. They race their I6 in their WTCC events, but then again, so does Chevrolet with their Chevy Malibu. A V6 is always inherently better in design than an I6. More compact, smoother, better COG. Why an automaker would want to go with an I6 is beyond me.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 2:53 pm) When Nissan makes a "front-midship" design with a V8 instead of a V6 in their sportscars like Chevrolet does then come talk to me. |
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 2:53 pm) 
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 3:12 pm) On what, a surface that even Edmunds admits was flawed? From their own and only test of the GT-R, folks: "Our test was conducted on a fairly low-grip surface that produced lots of rear wheelspin before the GT-R's sophisticated all-wheel-drive system engaged the front wheels..."And in the same paragraph of the same test, folks: "Due to their lack of all-wheel drive, the Dodge Viper and Corvette Z06 are held back by traction limitations." (Then one sentence later, Edmunds shows serious errors in their competence with this: "Once impressive, [the Z06's] 4.1-second 0-60-mph run and 12-second quarter-mile at 121.8 mph are now well off the pace, which is why Chevy is creating the supercharged Corvette ZR1." Truth of the matter is, is that the ZR-1 was created because Bob Lutz promises us that GM will never make any of his cars more powerful than the Corvette. Since the Cadillac CTS-V will have more power than the current Corvette Z06 (550 vs. 505), Bob Lutz was forced into creating the ZR-1 for that reason and that reason alone. By the same token, the previous CTS-V used the same LS6 engine as the Z06, but had to be detuned 15 horsepower on purpose just to make it less powerful than the Vette). " Uhhh... that includes the 1/4-mile time." Edmunds gets the GT-R to 120 MPH  11.6. They got the Z06 to 122 MPH 12 (authorities attribute Edmunds 12-second figure for the Z06 attributed to wheelspin at launch). Your incorrect data therefore suggests you might be biased towards the GT-R. Furthermore, Motor Trend got the following speeds for the Z06: 11.7 seconds at 125 mph and a top speed of 198 mph. Car and Driver got roughly the same numbers, which all means that the Z06 is already faster than the GT-R in both acceleration and top speed. "Why do you think its not skewed when the Corvette has been launched thousands of times by different drivers and the GT-R has been launched what? Twice? With enough practice, a good GT-R driver should put up high-2s as well." Again, the only reason why the obese GT-R is getting a 0-60 run in under 5 seconds is because of its AWD system. AWD systems permit about 1.5 times as much traction as RWD drivetrains. Thus, since the AWD system of the GT-R provides so much grip for the car, the GT-R will never test its limits of adhesion. For this reason, the quoted 3.6 seconds to 60 MPH will be the lowest figure any driver will ever get out of the car. Contrast this to the 2.8 second run to 60 MPH LPE got with a stock Z06 with Sonoco Blue. Again, there is potential for the current stock Z06 to run quicker 1/4 mile times, but there is no potential for the GT-R to do the same for the reason explained above. "AWD... pulls the front end around corners while the rear end pushes. This particular AWD system can transfer torque to the outside wheels to push it around corners even faster. That means when your front-heavy 'Vette driver has to let off to keep from oversteering and smoking the tires, the GT-R driver can keep powering through." This may be true if we're racing these cars to the summit of Pike's Peak in a rally race of some sort (think Subaru), but it is not the case on a normal road course. You say that the Corvette oversteers. If anything, it would be the rear-engine cars that are most suseptible to oversteer (this is all Cars 101, BTW...). Yet we never hear of the AWD Ferrari Challenge Stradale and never heard of the Acura NSX AWD. The best Porsche -- the GT3 -- is not an AWD car. There is an AWD 911, but the vehicle is clumsy compared to the GT3. An AWD system can never compete with the RWD setup on any track, except track racing in inclement weather or dirt roads. "And it was Fifth Gear, not Top gear." You are correct. It was Fifth Gear; not Top Gear that "tested" the GT-R. |
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