Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
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Nissan GT-R, Automotive News, Motorsports, Coupe
#155 of 194 Re: GT-R is sick. Just sick. [skarie]
May 01, 2008 (6:49 am)
Maybe because of this.
#156 of 194 Re: GT-R is sick. Just sick. [lemmer]
May 01, 2008 (7:59 am)
In the animal kingdom, many hybrid species are sterile.
With a sports car, less is more. So why pay 100-200K for one that isn't as fast as a GT-car, nor as light and visceral as an open-air car? They are stuck in the middle where they aren't really notable for anything.
I'll buy the GT-R and spend the rest on a KTM X-bow. Superb enjoyment all around. That is a case of 2 being better than one, IMHO.
c'mon! lighten up. Porsche will respond.
#157 of 194 Re: GT-R is sick. Just sick. [bigmclargehuge]
May 01, 2008 (11:28 am)
For me personally, the prime responsiblity of sports cars is to be fun and exciting to drive on both road and track. The GT-R doesn't sound like much fun. A plain Corvette seems more exciting to drive and a plain Miata seems like more fun. Of course I am just guessing this based on driving Miatas and Vettes and merely reading about the GT-R. Maybe if they came out with a RWD, non-turbo, manual shift, better looking GT-R for half the price I'd be interested. Come to think of it, that sounds a lot like a 350Z.
#158 of 194 Re: GT-R is sick. Just sick. [lemmer]
May 01, 2008 (1:06 pm)
I did like my Corvette, but I can have tons of fun in an AWD turbocharged DCG vehicle too.
Actually I can have fun in just about any car. I handbrake-turn and double-foot automatic FWD cars just to get them to take offramps a little quicker. Any car can be fun, and all cars are fun at some point. Except the Prius.
The subjective 'fun' is more about whats going on inside the subject (you) than the object (car). There is always something just a little more fun out there. Don't get me wrong, I like light, fast and visceral. But if I go manual shifting, NA, RWD, why not go all the way? The Miata is not 'all the way', IMHO.
#159 of 194 Re: GT-R is sick. Just sick. [bigmclargehuge]
May 01, 2008 (1:13 pm)
How about a Lotus Elise. Cars don't get much more fun and exciting.
#160 of 194 Re: GT-R is sick. Just sick. [lemmer]
May 01, 2008 (2:00 pm)
I wouldn't turn down an Elise. Thats a true embodiment of 'minimalist design' and is another type of engineering success.
But to maintain the topic somewhat, I can have fun whilst being impressed by the object (car) instead of the subject (me). And vice-versa as well. They just don't always have to be the same experience.
I think every time I gunned the GT-R's engine and shifted quickly, and then tossed it into a typically unmanageable curve, I would say "wow, what an impressive machine I have acquired." Adrenaline would run, eyes would widen, pulse would quicken. I think that is synonymous with 'fun'.
I think it would be like picking up a Barret BMG .50-cal. Sure a bolt-action 30.06 is more of a 'real' experience. But the BMG has so much recoil dampening and muzzle braking that it would kick no more than the 30.06. It doesnt make me a better shooter. But the technology of the gun allows me to fire a 12.7x99 round which I would otherwise be unable to do. And that gives me goosebumps.
I think my only solution would be to own both a GT-R and an Elise etc.
#161 of 194 why no follow up posts
May 06, 2008 (11:02 am)
about how fast the new ZR1 is lapping the 'Ring? The engineers are claiming beating the GT-R is a foregone conclusion.
In any case, the Corvette looks and sounds to be about 10 times more fun. I like the GT-R but even the proposed upgraded version will be so much heavier, less attractive, and lower powered than the ZR-1.
If the GT-R is "sick" as the kids say, then the new ZR-1 is twisted, puking sick (and this coming from a Porsche fan).
#162 of 194 Re: why no follow up posts [lemmer]
May 06, 2008 (12:35 pm)
My prediction is that smack talk is only going to get the ZR1 engineers in trouble.
Keep in mind that the ZR1 production has started, and now they are trying to see how fast it goes after the fact. The V-spec is testing and getting itself fine-tuned for track performance before production.
Even if it slightly out-edges the GT-R, the Corvette to end all Corvettes really doesn't stand a chance against the V-spec. Reasoning?
The GT-R had 480hp and 3800lbs to lug around. But its such a finely tuned AWD machine that it could blow away a 3100lb 505hp Corvette on a track.
Power was not the issue with the Corvette, traction was. Lets look at the performance improvement of the Z06 over the Z51. By gaining 70hp and losing 100lbs, it went from a 7:59 to a 7:43. 16 seconds.
The ZR1 then adds 120hp and gains 250lbs of curb weight. Sure the tires are wider, but in the end it got a lot more of what it already had plenty of.
The V-spec on the other hand will now have (at least) 70hp more and 300lbs fewer to push around. That's a bigger power/weight upgrade than the Z06 has over the Z51. That 16 seconds starts to sound conservative.
So while they are popping the champagne tops at GM, Nissan will just announce that the V-spec. set the record for world's fastest production car ever built. That'll take the wind out of anyone's sails.
The GT-R in its heavy, weak form posted a 7:29. We really should start a sweepstakes as to how much faster the V-spec. will be. 7:15? 7:10? 7:05? I can tell you what I think that car is capable of, and what I think they'll be shooting for. 6:59.
Why? Because it uses the exact same formula as the Alzen 996 GT2 Turbo 4WD. The fastest Group A Porsche ever to lap the Nordschlieffe. It was under 7 minutes.
Plus, Nissan has a landmark heritage to live up to. They were the only production car in the world at the time to break the 8 minute mark. Wouldn't this be fitting?
Nobody expected Godzilla to beat the 911 Turbo, the GT3, GT2, or the Z06. And it did. So I think the V-spec has every bit as much potential to cause widespread sickness.
#163 of 194 Re: why no follow up posts [lemmer]
May 06, 2008 (12:40 pm)
However if you want bang/buck + fun, I think the next-gen Z51 (or whatever they choose to call the base C7 Corvette) will be equivalent to the C6 Z06.
Because the C6 Z51 is about as good as the C5 Z06. At $50K, that's value that's hard to argue with.
If I were desperate for a fun bang/buck supercar this instant, I'd probably get a C6 Z51 and just install the supercharger myself.
#164 of 194 Re: why no follow up posts [bigmclargehuge]
May 06, 2008 (1:16 pm)
If the V-spec loses 300lbs and gains 70 hp, it will have a power to weight ratio close to the current Z06 for only what, a $50K premium?
As for the 'Ring, the unofficial darling of the moment is the Lexus LF-A at 7:24 just beating the V-Spec at 7:25. Of course, all times at the 'Ring are unofficial, measured in different ways and run in different conditions. Also you don't think that maybe GM puts a little hotter tire on the ZR-1 for a run? Maybe Nissan jacks up the boost a little? I take it all with a grain of salt. These times are meaningless to everyone but a few car geeks.
Beyond all the track talk, about the hardest thing to fake is instrumented 1/4 mile trap speeds of production models. The GT-R is still running third behind the 911 and Vette in just about everyone's results. I can't imagine the V-spec catching the ZR-1.