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Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?

194 messages,  Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Nissan GT-R, Automotive News, Motorsports, Coupe


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#142 of 194
Re: R&T Redux [kernick] by bigmclargehuge
Apr 16, 2008 (2:02 pm)
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Replying to: kernick (Apr 16, 2008 1:10 pm)

I was thinking more in terms of the glory days of piston-powered aircraft. In WWII, every fighter engine had a turbo/supercharger installed to run at max rpms indefinitely. The high-speed, high-altitude interceptors and heavy-laden bombers all had twin-stage turbo/superchargers. Whether it was radial or V-12, air or liquid cooled, reliability more came down to who was manufacturing it.
 
And with these cars, I think any problems would result from not enough troubleshooting. Basically any engine configuration can be tailored to a certain type of race with enough quality control.
#143 of 194
Re: R&T Redux [bigmclargehuge] by lemmer
Apr 22, 2008 (12:34 pm)
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 16, 2008 11:58 am)

From noted automotive historian Karl Ludvigsen about the rotary:
 
"its rotary engine had a displacement of 573cc per working chamber. Since there were two rotors and three cells per rotor, that added up to a total capacity of 3,438cc."
 
He maintains that rotary engine displacement has always been understated - very interesting. Maybe that is why they guzzle gas like a much larger engine.
#144 of 194
Re: R&T Redux [lemmer] by bumpy
Apr 22, 2008 (6:13 pm)
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Replying to: lemmer (Apr 22, 2008 12:34 pm)

The system used for measuring rotary displacement means that the Mazda "1.3" liter rotary is the functional equivalent of a 2.6L piston engine.
#145 of 194
Re: R&T Redux [bumpy] by lemmer
Apr 23, 2008 (5:41 am)
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Replying to: bumpy (Apr 22, 2008 6:13 pm)

I've heard that before also, but the Ludvigsen quote was new to me. He wrote an entire article about it in Hemmings Sports and Exotics.
#146 of 194
Re: Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06? [Mr_Shiftright] by 07997turbo
Apr 23, 2008 (8:45 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 08, 2008 7:20 pm)

Have ya looked at the specs and reviews on the 2008 Porsche GT2?....
 
In any event, I would rather roll at 200 MPH in a Porsche hardened roll cage than in a 2000 LB Japanese train wreck.
#147 of 194
Re: Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06? [07997turbo] by bigmclargehuge
Apr 23, 2008 (11:17 am)
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Replying to: 07997turbo (Apr 23, 2008 8:45 am)

Really? Because 2000lbs sounds pretty good to me. Are you talking the AE86?
 
And you are basing 'train-wreck on'? Probably nothing. Do whatever you want to do, but your criticisms are lacking in value.
 
And yes, I've seen the specs. They were impressive for a whole 5 minutes until the V-Spec started its testing. I'm sure we'll see a repeat of the GT-R/Turbo competition with the GT2/V-Spec competition. With the 3500LB V-Spec getting the performance edge in almost every category.
#148 of 194
Re: Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06? [07997turbo] by british_rover
Apr 23, 2008 (12:03 pm)
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Replying to: 07997turbo (Apr 23, 2008 8:45 am)

And the GT2 will cost how much??? I haven't seen anything specific but somewhere around 190,000-200,000 dollars is what I heard.
 
I doubt you could pay over 100,000 for a GTR even if you tried to.
#149 of 194
Re: Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06? [british_rover] by bigmclargehuge
Apr 23, 2008 (1:05 pm)
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Replying to: british_rover (Apr 23, 2008 12:03 pm)

Agreed, but I don't even like diving into the cost aspect, since someone will jump in with the 'feeling' of the Porsche being worth the extra 6-figures... ok fine, we can't measure that.
 
But Porsche designs its cars to be fast around a track, no question about that. Price is a Marketing issue. Brand image is a Marketing issue. Comfort and feel are personal preference and nothing more.
 
But every single Porsche being no superior technically to a Nissan? That's an engineering issue. And that's the only issue I think is valid here.
 
The title "Dethrone the 911 and Z06" is a resounding YES, if used in terms of performance. We know that Nissan will only make 1500 GT-R's for the US. So obviously they aren't trying to bankrupt Porsche or Chevy. They only want the bragging rights of the fastest car. And they succeeded. End.
#150 of 194
Re: Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06? [british_rover] by lemmer
Apr 24, 2008 (5:03 am)
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Replying to: british_rover (Apr 23, 2008 12:03 pm)

I wouldn't be surprised if people pay over $100K for the first few. People paid way over MSRP for the new Thunderbird just a few of years ago, so I am pretty sure they will for anything perceived as new and hot.
#151 of 194
Re: Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06? [lemmer] by bigmclargehuge
Apr 24, 2008 (5:53 am)
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Replying to: lemmer (Apr 24, 2008 5:03 am)

Ford GT went for 50% over MSRP as well. Thats what happens when you have tens of thousands of people wanting... hundreds of cars at that price. Frankly, Chevy gets to keep the trophy for availability of supercars. I'm sure they'll make as many ZR1s as are ordered from Kentucky. Same with the Z06.
 
People are willing to pay even more for things deemed 'exclusive', 'classy', etc.
 
Its probably worth it to whomever wants to own one of many automotive legends. Everyone who's driven it so far claims its a very different experience. Maybe just a break from the trivial and mundane is what people are willing to pay for. There's only one way to take it for testdrive. Fork out the cash and hope it fits with my driving style.

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