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Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 3:58 am) The only links you provided were links to Top Gear and Edmunds. Top Gear is infamous for their journalistic incompetence; Top Gear is for entertainment and entertainment only. Edmunds was given like 1 hour with the GT-R. As I stated before, the only Nurburgring run done in the GT-R was done by the GT-R engineer himself. Since this guy isn't letting the real automotive jopurnalists test the car on the Ring, we must ask ourselves the question, "What is he trying to hide from the automotive community?" "Yes, it is heavy, but they've done such a pheonominal job with the AWD system that it more than makes up for its weight. Currently, no Corvette or Porsche in production stands a chance on a track." The very reason why the Z06 doesn't have the steering feel or handling of the GT3 is because the Corvette has a mid-engine design with the engine up front. This front-weight bias has a numbing effect on the Z06's steering rack. That's the reason for its slight handling deficiency compared to the rear/mid-engined cars. The GT-R not only has its engine up front, but unlike the Corvette Z06, it's a true front-engine car (the Corvette is a mid-engine car with its engine rear of the front axle). Not only that, but there is over 700 more pounds on the front two tires compared to the lithe, agile Corvette, and nearly 1,000 pounds more than with the GT3. What does this mean? It means that while the added grip provided for by the AWD system will aid adhesion for a quick 0-60 run, steering feel and handling will suffer tremendously. Mark my words; after the fanfare dies down, the GT-R will be seen in last place when compared to greats like the Porsche GT3, Chevy Corvette Z06 and Ferrari F430. "Yes, the Z06 gets 0-60 in the high 2's with extra grip added. But those are rediculously skewed conditions." AWD on the track can be thought of as a "skewed condition." "There are no doubt conditions in which the GT-R could make up some time as well. Keep in mind, the C6 Z06 has been out for over a year and the GT-R isn't even in the states yet, and the real pros of drag racing haven't gotten a hold of it yet. And already journalists are getting better 0-60 times than they can in a Z06 on the first try." 0-60 times is a meaningless statistic. Better to the point is a car's 1/4-mile run. If drag racers want to mess around with a nearly 4,000 pound car that doesn't even have 500 horsepower, more to them.
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 10, 2008 2:03 pm) Edmunds had only an hour with the car. And with that hour, they crushed every Z06 journalistic record. Uhhh... that includes the 1/4-mile time. Why do you think its not skewed when the Corvette has been launched thousands of times by different drivers and the GT-R has been launched what? Twice? With enough practice, a good GT-R driver should put up high-2s as well. With 2x the traction, it can be heavier, and have less that 500hp, and still be faster. But a straight line isn't even where this car is best. Its handling is its best feature. AWD is a multi-talented design. It pulls the front end around corners while the rear end pushes. This particular AWD system can transfer torque to the outside wheels to push it around corners even faster. That means when your front-heavy 'Vette driver has to let off to keep from oversteering and smoking the tires, the GT-R driver can keep powering through. Your lithe, agile olympic athletes are trying to outrun a lion. Sure its heavier, but its faster and more agile at any clip. All of your analysis of where the weight is on this car is completely irrelevant. First, its a front-midship car, just like the Corvette. The engine is behind the front axle. The transaxle is in the rear, just like the Corvette. And it does not have 700 extra pounds on just the front wheels. You made that up. It doesn't really matter what you think about weight, AWD/RWD, power, etc. The facts are in. This car is even more impressive around corners than it is from 0-60. Times change. The GT3, Z06, and F430 are still great, but they are going to have to try harder. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't guess at what its handling capabilities are. And it was Fifth Gear, not Top gear. And you forgot to watch the Autoblog videos. There are 2 of them on the bottom of that page. |
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 3:12 pm)
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Replying to: lemmer (Mar 12, 2008 5:09 am) It makes me laugh though, because Nissan is complaining about losing money this year because of a poor economy (like most other manufacturers), and yet here they have a product who's demand way outstrips its supply. I guarantee if they shifted production to 10x the number of GT-Rs, they would all sell. I do hope that other companies follow the GT-R/Corvette model and realize the price of a supercar doesn't have to be astronomical. When we finally have options to choose from, like the new NSX, Supra, ZR1, next-gen Turbo, etc. in the same performance catagory perhaps the cheap supercar demand will spread out and prices will come down.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 5:35 am) |
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Replying to: pmc4 (Mar 10, 2008 2:03 pm) I think there are at least two more UK mags who tested the GT-R, look up youtube. One did a M3/911 turbo/GT-R comparison and I forgot the other one which has a M3 in it as well.
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Replying to: nwng (Mar 12, 2008 7:36 am) LOL. Yeah, lets go with 'relatively cheap'. I do indeed think the Z06 is a great bang/buck car. Offering supercar performance for 1/2-1/10 the price. If offered for the same price, the GT-R is in the same catagory (being modest, IMHO its a next-generation car). don't forget GT-R is not a brand new model, skylines were always in limited production and demand premiums. Indeed, and oddly enough the R32-R34 weighed in between 3500-3700lbs. And those were considered the best handling cars of their time when they were introduced too. And even with only 280-330hp, they were among the fastest due to their awesome AWD traction. So this one isn't drastically different, just a few updates. It trades the TT I-6 for the TT V-6. This one getting 50% more power and better economy. Add a few interior and exterior changes, and you have a return of the best handling car in its class. Just because it was never sold in the US prior to the R35 doesn't mean it wasn't a Japanese equiv to the 911. It has been since what... 1989? I think there are at least two more UK mags who tested the GT-R, look up youtube. One did a M3/911 turbo/GT-R comparison and I forgot the other one which has a M3 in it as well. I had them in my Autoblog link, but its just easier to go to the source.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 8:51 am) IIRC, the 1990 R32 NISMO version was 3400-something, but the R34s did get close to 3700. As for horsepower, once the factory detuning was corrected they put up about the same numbers that the R35 has now (although one would hope that the R35 also has a lot more in tank, given 45% more displacement to work with).
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Replying to: bumpy (Mar 12, 2008 9:20 am) Indeed you are correct about the weight. I unfortunately clicked this page and it looks as if they have the R32 and R34 weights inverted. One certainly could get more power out of the old I-6. I'm a fan of inline engines and wish they had stuck with it actually. Time will tell if they left this V6 some untapped potential. I'd like to see a ~500hp R34 go up against an R35. Would be interesting to see those results.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 12, 2008 9:32 am)
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