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Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 12:05 PM
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Replying to: lemmer (Mar 25, 2008 5:20 am) However, there is still no evidence to suggest that the GT-R would not be faster than these 2 cars on a track, from any source. The degree to which it is faster will have something to do with driver ability and familiarity with the vehicles. Professionals with the GT-R (and Millen is no exception) have come close to Enzo times on tracks already. So were the previous drivers in the Enzo 'sandbagging' so that a year later the GT-R might catch up? Not likely. Even if all 3 were exactly the same speed, the fact that the GT-R can even accomplish that despite being significantly heavier already proves that the other 2 have untapped potential. They technically should be performing better than they are. Its not the driver's fault if the 911T and Z06 can't catch an Enzo. That's Porsche and Chevy's fault, and it might just be physically impossible to do. If a driver in a GT-R can catch an Enzo.... well done Nissan.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 25, 2008 7:19 am) The reason I see a bright future for the GT-R, and the reason I see it as ground-breaking, is that the platform seems to have a great deal of room for development, whereas cars like the Viper and Vette need to be re-invented for the future IMO.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Apr 02, 2008 7:13 am)  Some of these magazine tests should be required to put a disclaimer at the start of the article on how much ad revenue each of the manufacturers in the test contributed.
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Replying to: tedebear (Apr 14, 2008 2:02 pm) |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Apr 02, 2008 7:13 am) Similarly I said a few weeks ago, that it would be interesting to run these cars at a track like Indy, Daytona, or Talladega for 24 hours. See how many miles they can run. In that case you would be including mpg, gearing, cooling design, tire wear, and whether your design to achieve high power is really reliable. I would think in a test like this displacement would matter (less stressed, more cooling area), with a car like the Vette or Viper running the most miles. I know Saab used to tout this type of test (24 hour high-speed run) about 10 years ago in their advertising.
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Replying to: kernick (Apr 15, 2008 1:12 pm) Basically, what you're suggesting is drive them both until they handgrenade? And even then, which one goes first might vary based on certain conditions. So what we really have to do is buy 10 of each and then average which one blew up after how long. But who has a spare million to prove this moot point? I think the point that was being made is that NEITHER is durable enough to take that kind of punishment. Similarly to before, this really isn't the practical kind of test that can determine a real winner between these cars in stock form. Also, its not as simple as displacement. Endurance-race prepped Corvettes and 911s match up quite well. The extra cooling of the larger block is partially counteracted by the extra friction that having extra pistons invariably causes. Displacement is not really the measure I would use to predict a winner.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Apr 15, 2008 3:00 pm) Mazda did it here with a very small displacement engine: http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2004-Mazda-RX-8-Record-Run.htm If you do some searches you'll probably find other manufacturers do this with their cars, with various changes. Or maybe more impressive: http://www.saabhistory.com/2007/01/25/the-last-saab-9000-503087/ "The ‘Long Run‘ endurance test on the Saab 9000 at the Alabama International Speedway in Talladega, Alabama, U.S.A. in October 1986 played a major role in strengthening the sporty image of the car. Over a period of 20 days, Saab staged an incredible record run with three standard production Saab 9000 Turbo cars. This resulted in 21 new international records and two world records - the foremost of which was a distance of 100 000 km at an average speed of 213.299 km." I would be quite upset if I paid $70K+ for a high performance car, and if it was only good to run for 20 min. or so at a time! I would expect these cars to be able to run 150mph+ for their full warranty period. Otherwise since you're bound by the laws on the road, you might as well get an Accord V-6.
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Replying to: kernick (Apr 16, 2008 5:27 am) Race engines actually are more "fragile" than a stock engine, as they usually run higher compressions and rpm. Uhh... they also have higher specific power outputs with those considerations. They are hand-built that way. If you added the extra power to a stock engine, the race engine would outlast it every time. After every 24-hour race, you overhaul the entire drivetrain regardless. I would fully expect a large normally aspirated engine to run for 24+ hours at an rpm a few hundred under red-line, especially with a synthetic oil. They do these as bench-tests to determine reliability. There really is no point to doing it on a track with a fully manufactured car, because you will be removing that engine for an overhaul afterwards. I would expect these cars to be able to run 150mph+ for their full warranty period. Why? There is only one type of situation in which that could ever occur: (from your article) 24 hours of non-stop maximum speed around the 7.6mile-long banked circuit at Papenburg test facility, near Hamburg in the north of Germany. So you want the GT-R and Z06 to win a NASCAR endurance competition. A banked oval? 7.6miles? That is probably one of the biggest ovals in the world. The drivers likely never had to downshift except to pit. What does this prove? Even NASCAR drivers have to downshift more than that because their long tracks are only what, 2 miles around? If you are working towards moving the 'supercar' benchmark towards fuel efficiency, #of laps or distance travelled over 24-hours, the RX-8, Z06, 911, GT-R would all lose to an MB 320 CDI. http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105638# This isn't exactly the test for supercars. If this type of test is what impresses you most, why bother comparing cars that were designed for cornering and acceleration?
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