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Automotive News & Views Are The Japanese Poised to Dethrone the 911 AND the Z06?
194 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2008 at 1:05 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 08, 2008 8:20 pm) It won't be long before the competition develops an AWD traction and handling system that is competitive with Nissan's ATTESA-ETS system. It might take a few years, because the Nissan is out NOW in some countries, and the others aren't ready to update their models until past 2010. One thing in particular to watch is: how much technology are Porsche and Audi going to share now that Porsche is buying a larger stake in VW? Perhaps there is a fusion of AWD technologies that will allow the Germans to develop a hyper-AWD traction and handling system as well. I'm going to speculate on Corvette though. If they want to stay front-engine RWD only, which I'm sure their base would insist on, they have to lighten the engine. Only 50% of the weight on the drive wheels to 100% on the GT-R will eventually be a hinderance. There is no reason why they can't get 500 hp out of a 3.5L-4.0L V8 with supercharging. Getting the weight under 3000lbs will compensate for lack of AWD traction. I love the Vette and the Viper, but lets be honest, 6.2-8.3L engines are too big. They did an awesome job engineering a car to carry these engines really fast, but in the end, there comes a point when your tires just can't get any wider, your gear ratios can't get any lower, and you need AWD to push a 3000+lb car around a track as fast as a GT-R.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 09, 2008 11:57 am) The GT-R is just an overbloated, 3,900 monstrosity that's tiny yet weighs almost as much as the Empire State Building. It gets its 0-60 figure by being an AWD chassis and that's it. The Vette has so much power that you induce wheelspin. People are getting 0-60 MPH times in the high 2's after Sonoco Blue is poured on the asphalt. There's no way a heavy car like the GT-R will have the handling characteristics of a Vette or even a GT3 for that matter. Front-end weight bias is just too much for delicate control of steering, and it's just enough to numb the experience. I can see the GT-R competing against other front-end heavy cars like the M3 but not the Z06 or GT3. The GT3 and Z06 are lithe, agile Oympic athletes compared to the porky GT-R... |
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The GT-R is "mopping up" the 911 and Z06 according to the Engineer in charge of the GT-R's design, not by any objective journalist. The GT-R is just an overbloated, 3,900 monstrosity that's tiny yet weighs almost as much as the Empire State Building. It gets its 0-60 figure by being an AWD chassis and that's it. The Vette has so much power that you induce wheelspin. People are getting 0-60 MPH times in the high 2's after Sonoco Blue is poured on the asphalt. There's no way a heavy car like the GT-R will have the handling characteristics of a Vette or even a GT3 for that matter. Front-end weight bias is just too much for delicate control of steering, and it's just enough to numb the experience. I can see the GT-R competing against other front-end heavy cars like the M3 but not the Z06 or GT3. The GT3 and Z06 are lithe, agile Oympic athletes compared to the porky GT-R... You need to do a little more homework. There is becoming a plethora of tests by objective journalists in which the GT-R 'mops up' the Z06, the GT3, and the Porsche turbo. Autoblog Fifth Gear Inside Line And there are plenty more where those came from. Yes, it is heavy, but they've done such a pheonominal job with the AWD system that it more than makes up for its weight. Currently, no Corvette or Porsche in production stands a chance on a track. Yes, the Z06 gets 0-60 in the high 2's with extra grip added. But those are rediculously skewed conditions. There are no doubt conditions in which the GT-R could make up some time as well. Keep in mind, the C6 Z06 has been out for over a year and the GT-R isn't even in the states yet, and the real pros of drag racing haven't gotten a hold of it yet. And already journalists are getting better 0-60 times than they can in a Z06 on the first try.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 4:58 am)
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Replying to: lemmer (Mar 10, 2008 6:22 am) They gave up on the aging 3.0L V6 coupe and focused on the 2.0L I-4 sedan. The Evolution has proved to be a very capable and fast car, and it is even more of a techno-geek mobile. The FQ-400 is more than a match for anything in its price range. The VR4 fans just switched to sedans, the EVOs and the STIs, and a few others. And they are increasing in numbers. This new GT-R is going to be wildly popular, until Porsche and Corvette come up with something comperable. Nobody gets bored with the fastest production car in its class.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 8:01 am) And how about resale? Price a '94 911 versus a '94 VR4. Started out new maybe 50% more, now worth 3-5 times as much. That being said, I have higher hopes for the GT-R. I am just not ready to jump on the bandwagon before they even roll them out.
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Replying to: lemmer (Mar 10, 2008 8:46 am) Could it be that in 1992 the Corvette got the LT1 engine and got bumped up by 50hp? And that this 911 you speak of was modified with a lighter chassis? And you aren't really making any point with the resale values. There are still VR4s in good condition that go for 2/3 of their original purchase price. That's because its still a good platform, can be tuned-to-race at 600hp by an expert, or makes a great collectors item. And what '911' are you talking about? A used 911 could be anything up to a 70K 993 GT2. So where exactly are the 300ZX and the Supra now? I'll tell you, they got replaced by more advanced sedans, Evo and STI, just like the VR4. Same market, same fate. The GT-R is what the 3000GT could have been with 10 years of improved technology. And guess what's currently mopping up the competition? I already said I expect Porsche and Corvette to make a comeback. But the GT-R is raising the bar again.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 9:35 am) Those and the 3000GT got caught in the mid-90s vise of escalating insurance on one side and the appreciating yen on the other side. The NSX was always a top-dollar, low-volume halo car, and it did exactly what Honda expected of it.
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Replying to: bumpy (Mar 10, 2008 10:17 am) I'm actually a big fan of that entire era of twin-turbo V6s. 300ZX, Supra, VR4. They could have all been great performers had they stuck around. Oh well, more stagetime for Nissan.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (Mar 10, 2008 10:33 am) Toyota pretty much gave up on the sports & GT market. The 300ZX got replaced (eventually) by the 350Z, a simpler non-turbo car. The RX-7 was replaced (eventually) by the far simpler non-turbo RX-8. See the minor trend going on here? Any chimp can run heavy boost on a crappy car and brag about its performance. It didn't work on Porsche 924s in the 70s, Renault Fuegos and Chrysler K cars in the '80s or various Mitsubishis in the '90s. I'll reiterate that I am not convinced this is happening with Nissan now. I am just a little skeptical.
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