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Vans & Minivans Mazda Mazda5 2009 Mazda5
44 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2008 at 1:37 PM
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NO ESC = NO MAZDA5 FOR ME This should have been my first Mazda purchase and the start of a long valuable consumer relationship between Mazda and me. Instead, this glaring lack of proper, soon to be mandated, safety feature technology has bittered this consumer to the core. After patiently waiting, and taking the time to personally write (by both s-mail and e-mail way back in Feb) all explaining the expectations of ESC in the ’09 model; I am utterly disappointed they have stuck with the status quo; ignoring my (and many others) call for an updated M5 with ESC. I am sure that by the time Mazda sees right; there will be lots of new space wagons as competition here in the US. Look for new products in late ’09-’10, that will surely all come with ESC standard. GM, Subaru, Honda and others are all rumored to have Mazda5 class competition under development. With the cost of fuel on the rise, and a move to smaller more efficient autos already apparent - this niche segment will expand rapidly. Mazda, who was poised to strike while the fire was hot, with an outstanding product in the Mazda5 (save the obvious oversight of no ESC) will blow this perfect opportunity to become a leader in a new segment. No, instead they have settled for a sub par safety reputation; choosing the easy road, the lazy road, the road that leads to mediocrity. For me, I will move on to something else for my purchase. I cannot continue to wait for Mazda USA to wake up… a different brand for me, for sure. Likely, I will be less passionate about its shape and size than I was about the 5 - but at least I will be confident in it safety performance; which is the bottom line for first time parents – purchasing a car for their first new baby. Mazda… you’re dead to me.
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Replying to: autoholic75 (Aug 08, 2008 9:29 am) I wrote an article titled "Is Electronic Stability Control Worth It?". It doesn't say that it is or isn't. It goes into what your actual odds of an injury accident or fatal accident are, how the odds are influenced by ESC/DSC, and what your cost differential would be between the Mazda 5 and a Toyota Sienna. Then it's up to you to make up your mind. Here's a quote... "They claim it will save 10,000 lives a year. In a population of 300,000,000, that puts your odds of being in the group of people whose lives were saved by Electronic Stability Control at 1 in 30,000 in any given year. If you're not in that 1 in 30,000 group, either you weren't in an accident at all, you weren't in a potentially fatal accident, or you were in a fatal accident, but you were one of the 20,000+ people who would still die anyway, Electronic Stability Control or not." I ended up deciding that the Mazda 5 would be an okay choice. It really doesn't have much more cargo room than a Honda CRV, but the small size, sliding doors, and captain's chairs in the first two rows make it easier to fit into a tight garage, yet still get two little kids into the rear seats without having to back out first. Last, worth noting... I have a new baby due in November. It will be our second, and I've been looking at the 5 as an upgrade from my 5-door. My current car has neither stability control or ABS (the 5 has ABS), but I carted first kid around in it in the snow without ever feeling it wasn't safe enough. But, then again, I don't have a lead foot, I maintain a more-than-safe following distance to ensure I have plenty of reaction time, and I don't take my eye off the road while in motion, which probably puts me in a group of 1 in 30,000 drivers all by itself.
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Replying to: autoholic75 (Aug 08, 2008 9:29 am) |
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Replying to: chiefbongo (Aug 08, 2008 10:16 am) For me this DSC thing is not an option. I made a decision long ago that my next car for my new family, would be a new one, with all the latest in safety features that money can buy, especially stability control (ESC/DSC). Basically, it comes down to a personal experience. Back 15 years ago, when I was just a kid, I lost control of a car at highway speeds and nearly paid the ultimate price. You would be amazed at how your priorities shift once you have spent nine days in intensive care. Lucky for me, I came out of it all just fine in the end – probably learned a valuable lesson as a teenager – to respect speed at an early age. Before you write me off to negligent teenage driving, know that I wasn’t… just simply avoiding an animal on the hwy. Also, prior to my accident I had 6 years of go-cart racing experience; and at the time, I thought I knew how to handle a vehicle in a dynamic situation. I had plenty of experience for sure. But no one can maintain 100% awareness all of the time – and even the best drivers in the world make mistakes. I do agree that safe driving skills are fundamental for staying out of accidents. As coolmazda stated so well, all the safety system acronyms combined cannot protect a careless driver from themselves. I agree. But I am an engineer by profession, and by nature, I take nothing for granted when it comes to safety. The more, the better. For my loved ones, I want the state of the art; particularly since I don’t expect that I will be the one driving this car most of the time. Today’s family hauler eventually becomes JR’s crappy cruiser (people always forget this). To top it all off, the DSC software and equipment have already been developed, deployed and tested on this model for all the other markets. Corporate Mazda USA executive, in their infinite wisdom, decided (I imagine in some expensive Southern California board room where the weather is always perfect and nobody at the table even knows what black ice is) …they decided that stability control is not worth bringing to the US consumers – that we somehow do not deserve/care for the very best in modern safety technology. So now Mazda USA decides to spend more money and more time to redesign and re-spec the US bound M5 units, so they can be sold in a sub-standard state. Ultimately, any cost savings made by removing the DSC parts for US markets are likely offset by the redesign, re-spec, re-certification costs incurred. So they spend more to offer less? This does not even account for the damage done to brand reputation and the obvious loss of sales to discerning customers who insist on DSC, like me. This is not rocket science. Family cars need safety first. Mazda USA blew it. |
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"Ultimately, any cost savings made by removing the DSC parts for US markets are likely offset by the redesign, re-spec, re-certification costs incurred. So they spend more to offer less?" Nice scenario,but I doubt it plays out that way. 1st, you made the assumption that the car was designed, specified and certified with DSC and then removed. 2nd, you assume that the market segment consists of individuals just like you, with the same desires, background and priorities. 3rd, you assume that decisions are made based on key individual's (in this case, executives on surfboards) desires and not those of the consumer. Having worked in marketing for a while, here's my simplified guess of how it goes: 1st, federal regulations are met. 2nd, a list of popular equipment of the segment is outlined. 3rd, a list of "delight" items are added with the aid of review clinic and survey data. 4th, steps 2 and 3 are fed through a financial equation. Every item on a car is assigned a dollar amount and then weighed based on what the market will accept. $500 may not sound like much for someone with that item as a top priority, but for the person who's priority is being able to plug in an iPod or have a flat folding cargo area, that $500 may be a huge turn off. Marketing is not a perfect science, but until a customer can configure a product and have it ready the same day, it is what it is. |
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Mazda5 fans have been asking for DSC for how long? The only explanation for leaving it off is that some exec at Mazda, or more likely Ford, is extremely stubborn and stupid. Meanwhile, potential sales move elsewhere. Some day the Mazda 5 will be discontinued for lack of sales, and the same exec will blame the market and us fickle consumers as he collects his 10 million dollar paycheck.
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Replying to: mbros2k (Aug 11, 2008 9:30 am)  http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/jul2008/bw20080711_125369.htm' Also read and reply here, I think it would make more sense: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f18986c/46 |
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Replying to: mbros2k (Aug 11, 2008 9:30 am) Every time you make a change in a model, you need to retool part of the assembly line and train the workers to install the new part. This costs money and takes time. If their projections don't show a good enough return on investment for that retooling and retraining, then it doesn't happen unless required by the government. If you want something else, consider the Dodge caravan. The base model comes with a 175 hp 3.3 liter V6, it has DSC and traction control, and at 17/24, it has the highest mileage rating in the minivan segment after the 5. If you figure a 70/30 highway/city split, you'll see a 21.9 MPG average vs. 25.2 for the automatic transmission on the 5. At $4.01 a gallon for gas and driving 13,000 miles a year, your gas costs on the Caravan would be around $26 a month higher. Since Dodge is doing $4,000 customer cash ($2,000 general + $2,000 for some trucks and the Caravan) to get the '08 models off the lot by September. If you buy a base '08 model now, you're looking at a price around $1,500-2,000 lower than the automatic transmission 5 sport, which covers the gas price differential for 4-5 years. So if your reason for a 5 is price, Dodge is competitive now. If it's mileage, they're offering the second best mileage in the segment. If it's safety, they're offering more safety features. Plus you get a third row that a 6' tall man can sit in comfortably. If your reason for picking a Mazda is the car-like feel when you drive, well, that's unique. According to the model specifications on Edmunds, the 5 has a tighter "turning circle" at 34.8 feet than a Porsche Boxter (36.4) or a Mercedes Benz C-class (35.6), while the Caravan pulls a 38 foot turning circle, which is wider than the Honda Oddyssey (36.7) or the Toyota Sienna (36.8), but less than the Chevy Uplander (39.4), Kia Sedona (38.2), Nissan Quest (40), or Hyundai (39.6). Also, though the Dodge has 22 more horses, it's pulling more weight, so the Mazda's engine is likely to be peppier. And last, there's the reputation for being a car you'll quit before it quits on you that Mazda has but Dodge doesn't really pull off. So if price and safety features are your biggest triggers, check out Dodge during the next 3 weeks or so. |
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| Yeah, like anyone in their right mind would buy a Chrysler (by Cerebus) product. | |
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I bought a 2008 Gt and I really could have cared less about ESC. I don't even know if my other cars have had it before. I mean how would I even know I am missing it? I have had a lot of German cars, is that something they have? This cars drives as well as my Audi 5000 which had AWD. It is really great and feels really safe. We have driving it up and down the east coast loaded to the gills and no problems. Again...how would I know if I am missing something when everything else is so great? |
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