Last post on May 10, 2010 at 6:35 AM
You are in the Mitsubishi Outlander
What is this discussion about?
Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester, Car Comparisons, SUV
#957 of 1581 Re: Chase Freedom Rewards [ateixeira]
Dec 18, 2009 (9:24 pm)
>> Once PSA takes over, how long will they keep allowing MMNA to lose money before they close shop?
PSA doesn’t “take over”, they just buy a stake. And PSA more than Mitsu interested in getting into NA market, just as FIAT interested. Mitsu’s N. American market sales are tiny vs. the Mitsu the rest of the world sales so they can afford giving cars away for free in N.A. just to maintain presence. Subaru sells only half of million cars worldwide (twice less then Mitsu) so Subaru cannot afford any more losses, and they can only hope that “Symmetric AWD” party will continue. I wish them the best, but how long could they fool consumer selling old technology?
>> Since you won't let it go - CR didn't list the turbo Forester when I mentioned it, that information was not available at the time.
But it is available now, I would hope you could share it with us at list now: you are the CR subscriber. I just stopped by the book store and took a pict on my iPhone.
>> I'm still pleased because my Forester is more reliable than any Mitsubishi car or truck, at any price, no exceptions.
Based on what data? We only have an average rating for Outlanders of all trims/engines. After all Mitsu is overall more reliable brand vs. Subaru: link
As you can see that Mitsubishi brand is more reliable then Lexus, Hyundai, Subaru, Mazda, and Nissan. Only Honda and Toyota owned brands are ahead:
Consumer Reports 2009 most and least reliable car ranking.
>> By the way, the con rod bearings showed wear and they replaced them, they didn't wait for catastrophic failure. Reliability will improve with time since the issue was resolved.
Yea, we hope it “will improve with time”. "By the way", you should have been honest about it in the first place instead of blaming Mitsu turbochargers.
#958 of 1581 Re: the poor man's LSD [ateixeira]
Dec 18, 2009 (9:39 pm)
>>"virtual" limited-slip differential effect
It has the same EFFECT, but virtual = not real.
How is that different than Subaru's?
They did not say "the same". Just an effect. Read my post again. OK, I can copy/paste it for you convenience:
the stability/traction control provides just a "virtual" limited-slip differential effect. In one article it’s called the poor man's LSD.
If both sides lose traction at the same time and spin at the same speed then it has no idea anything is wrong. A more advanced system measures the difference between the speeds of all 4 wheels during acceleration and assumes that anything spinning faster than the slowest rotating wheel is slipping . A cheap system will apply the brakes. An expensive system will reduce the throttle until the problem goes away.
Another problem with stability control is that it's pretty harsh. The pulsing of the ABS isn't progressive. If the ABS is on, it applies full braking power followed by zero braking power.. full, zero, full, zero.. The torque from the engine that's being transferred repeatedly all the way across the drivetrain from wheel to wheel a dozen times a second, puts stress on everything. Brakes, rotors, axles, U joints, output shafts, and the differential itself.
Also stability control is really designed for emergency low traction situations and not drag racing or rallying or other long duration and many ESC today operate only at lower speeds.
#959 of 1581 Re: ALG Residual Value Awards [ateixeira]
Dec 18, 2009 (9:51 pm)
Yea, I made a couple of mistakes (not all that you mentioned), and I've admitted them right away, but I've never bragged about them for many pages in a thread, the way you bragged about Borg Warner.
Well, now I accept your apology and I will avoid bringing this issue up again.
#960 of 1581 Re: Chase Freedom Rewards [ateixeira]
Dec 18, 2009 (10:30 pm)
>> Not to mention the Benz ML is not exactly known for legendary reliability, so all models in this thread exceed his own standards by a wide margin.
Not all. Check your CR magazine. My M-Class Benz actually rated above average: better then Forester XT, which is below average. The Benz GLK has best CR reliability rating in its class: better then any Forester in its class.
#961 of 1581 Re: Chase Freedom Rewards [chelentano]
Dec 19, 2009 (10:32 am)
Infinity is of course a Nissan owned brand...
#962 of 1581 Now that you've bored everyone out of their skulls...
Dec 19, 2009 (10:50 am)
Perhaps we can get back to discussing the actual merits of these two vehicles
#963 of 1581 Re: Chase Freedom Rewards [chelentano]
Dec 19, 2009 (11:20 am)
they can afford giving cars away for free in N.A. just to maintain presence
I'll take an EVO in black, please.
it is available now, I would hope you could share it with us at list now
I still don't have the issue you're talking about. The latest issue I have is January 2010. The Feb issue won't arrive for a week or more. You must be looking on-line or somewhere else?
The link you refer to talks about predicted reliability. Last month's Consumer Reports put my Forester in the top 48 of all models (4th in class, as per your image) in actual measured reliability, and I was happy about that, and still am.
#964 of 1581 Re: ALG Residual Value Awards [chelentano]
Dec 19, 2009 (11:38 am)
I made a couple of mistakes (not all that you mentioned), and I've admitted them right away
I've got more corrections, since we're in the mood for admitting our mistakes.
Frank: sorry, bear with me, promise these will be about the Outlander and on-topic.
Link to chelentano's original post:
Quote from it:
•Mitsubishi, 2006, introduced S-AVC with all 4 wheel torque vectoring on 07 EVO X and now on Outlander GT.
We now know that's not true. The Outlander GT does not have all 4 wheel torque vectoring. AFD = active front differential, which means it has front or 2 wheel torque vectoring, not all/4. It's not the same as the EVO X.
Honest mistake, perhaps. I'll cut you some slack, we were both wrong.
In post 814 you talk about Active Yaw Control having advantages including "provide the maximum cornering potential", and while you could say that about the slalom potential, cornering potential is more than a stretch when an Aveo does better in the same test. More on topic, so did the Forester.
AYC helps, sure, but not in the way you described.
If you were talking about the EVO, OK, no problem, but please specify from now on which model's AYC you are referring to, because they differ.
Then you wrote this:
Understeer when cornering is reduced as a Yaw moment can be set-up by torque transfer at the rear wheels.
Again, not on the Outlander. You did not specify which model you were talking about, but a few posts above that you grouped the Outlander GT with the EVO, as if they had identical drive systems.
Perhaps you believed that at the time, but we now know they're not the same.
#965 of 1581 Re: Chase Freedom Rewards [chelentano]
Dec 19, 2009 (11:41 am)
My M-Class Benz actually rated above average: better then Forester XT, which is below average
I stand corrected.
FWIW, the Forester XT still falls in the "Average" range.
#966 of 1581 Cost Cutting - who doesn't?
Dec 19, 2009 (11:53 am)
Both of these models are guilty here, let's be honest.
The Forester should have gotten the 5EAT from the Outback, or at least the 6 speed manual the euro diesel Forester gets. The XT could have had the higher output turbo engine from the WRX. Canada gets HIDs and USA does not. My '98 Forester had a dash-top storage bin and that's gone.
Ironically the Outlander had it last year (perfect place for a radar detector or cell phone) and that also disappeared, at least from the GT model.
But MMNA is being punished for their poor performance, too. No twin clutch transmission, even though they said it was coming a couple of years ago. The GT concept had sweet looking Brembo brakes, an important omission since it's not a light vehicle. No roof rails on the GT, too.
Subaru owners write letters to SoA complaining about stuff like that, and Mitsubishi owners should, too.