Last post on May 10, 2010 at 6:35 AM
You are in the Mitsubishi Outlander
What is this discussion about?
Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester, Car Comparisons, SUV
#944 of 1581 Re: ALG Residual Value Awards [chelentano]
Dec 17, 2009 (4:50 pm)
downgraded "symmetrical awd" which after redesign lost LS differential
Some models had a viscous LSD to manage traction on the rear axle (better than on the front, but still not on both), but it was replaced with traction/stability control that managed traction on both axles on all models. That was an upgrade, not a downgrade.
Let's use Mitsubishi as a source for this one, from their 2006 press release when they intro'd the 2007 Outlander you ended up buying:
The traction control portion of ASTC provides a "virtual" limited-slip differential effect by helping to prevent wheel spin during start up and acceleration in slippery conditions. Even if the driver has not selected 4WD Auto or 4WD Lock modes on a 4WD Outlander model, front wheel spin can be controlled under a variety of conditions. Since a mechanical limited-slip differential is not required, weight is reduced.
You bought in to that theory because that is where you spent your money.
If you thought a mechanical LSD was better, why didn't you buy a 2007 Forester? They had them back then.
You chose traction control instead. As did Subaru.
#945 of 1581 Premium Fuel recommended by Mitsu Canada...
Dec 17, 2009 (5:22 pm)
Mitsubishi of Canada is going with a "Premium Unleaded" fuel recommendation:
Strange that both the EPA and Mitsu Canada say Premium. Wonder if MMNA will do that also? It's the same 230hp engine. It is not specified on their web site.
What does it say behind the fuel door of the 2010s?
#946 of 1581 Re: Premium Fuel recommended by Mitsu Canada... [ateixeira]
Dec 17, 2009 (6:04 pm)
What does it say behind the fuel door of the 2010s?
You can use regular or premium. As with a lot of modern V6s, the manual states you get more power from premium but it is not required.
I'm burning regular. Getting about 22.5MPG according to the OBC. That's in suburban driving as it has yet to see an interstate. I have about 330 miles on it to date. I'm officially past the 300 mile break-in period for the engine.
#947 of 1581 Re: Premium Fuel recommended by Mitsu Canada... [fushigi]
Dec 17, 2009 (7:14 pm)
I'm officially past the 300 mile break-in period for the engine.
Doesn't Mitsubishi specify a 1,000 mile break-in period? I thought that was the standard for all manufacturers?
#948 of 1581 Re: Premium Fuel recommended by Mitsu Canada... [p0926]
Dec 17, 2009 (8:00 pm)
The manual says 300. As I only buy a new car every few years, I always take the time to RTFM. And on the Outlander, the main manual is over an inch thick. Then there's a separate 11 chapter manual for the multi-communication system a.k.a. sound + bluetooth + navi etc. And a thin maintenance manual to note the 7500 mile oil changes etc.
#949 of 1581 Re: Premium Fuel recommended by Mitsu Canada... [fushigi]
Dec 17, 2009 (8:08 pm)
Interesting. I wonder why Mitzu is different? I know what you mean about the thickness of today's owner's manuals. All the manuals for a new MB are about two inches thick!
#950 of 1581 Re: Premium Fuel recommended by Mitsu Canada... [p0926]
by steve_ HOST
Dec 17, 2009 (8:28 pm)
I heard that GM reduced the size of their manuals to around 70 pages. They'll all be online and nowhere else in a few years I bet. Probably be able to pull them up on the nav or heads up display.
And yeah, seems like 300 to 500 miles is a more typical break-in period these days. And that's probably just to bed in the brakes.
#951 of 1581 Re: Chase Freedom Rewards [ateixeira]
Dec 17, 2009 (9:27 pm)
>> Mitsu needs to increase sales 300% to get back to 2002 levels, maybe they should change their marketing strategy
North american market is smallest for Mitsu, but it's to big to pass on it. They will not exit this market as long as company is doing well worldwide. Mitsu still sells twice more cars vs. Subaru worldwide. Subaru sold this fiscal year 555k vs. 2008: 616k . Subaru forecasts further decline next year. This is a huge 61k decline in addition to the staggering ¾ billion dollar loss. As a result Subaru not only delays upgrades but even downgrades to a more basic AWD system and Chinese turbochargers.
I agree though that Mitsu marketing sucks and everyone at the MMNA marketing division should be fired.
>> Outlander: the TENTH most reliable compact SUV!
So are you saying Forester’s 19th place is better? "That will triple sales!" No wonder bragging all month about Forester CR reliability rating you were so shy to mention it.
>>>stripped down Subarus at least more reliable!
>>Another myth. The 2.5X Limited is not stripped down at all, it has all the same equipment as the XT Limited. This shows how little you know about the Forester.
Except not all Foresters are equipped with the same options as “Limited”, “shows how little you know about the Forester.” But even “Limited” is poorly equipped.
>> The only difference is the turbo powertrain, so I guess we have to ask who supplies that turbo that lowers the reliability score? Who supplies the turbo again?
Mitsubishi-supplied turbochargers are fine. Lancer turbo has very good reliability rating, way better then average.
“This shows how little you know about the Forester.” The reported problem with turbo Forester XT is rod big end bearings, which is a major mechanical part of actual engine and not part of Mitsubishi turbocharger.
Turbochargers put con rod under tremendous stress from the reciprocating load represented by the piston, while load is increased to the 3rd power with increased speed. Failure of a connecting rod, usually called "throwing a rod" is one of the most common causes of catastrophic and expensive engine failure in cars. When building a high performance engine, great attention should be paid to the con rods, since the rod could to fail under stress.
Subaru did not provide an engine appropriate to function with high performance turbocharger. They simply attached turbocharger to a stock "boxer" engine. Irresponsible and cheap approach. American consumer will buy anyway the "symmetrical AWD" and "boxer" engine.
#952 of 1581 the poor man's LSD
Dec 18, 2009 (12:13 am)
>> If you thought a mechanical LSD was better, why didn't you buy a 2007 Forester?
Why would I? The 2007 Forester is an ugly dated station wagon, no thank you . The 2007 Outlander does have LSD. The 2007 Outlander is more advanced, than 2011 Forester which still will be equipped with 1988 4EAT transmission.
>>>> downgraded "symmetrical awd" which after redesign lost LS differential
>> it was replaced with traction/stability control that managed traction on both axles on all models. That was an upgrade, not a downgrade. Let's use Mitsubishi as a source for this one, from their 2006 press release: The traction control portion of ASTC provides a "virtual" limited-slip differential effect by helping to prevent wheel spin during start up and acceleration in slippery conditions.
That’s right: the stability/traction control provides just a "virtual" limited-slip differential effect. In one article it’s called the poor man's LSD. If both sides lose traction at the same time and spin at the same speed then it has no idea anything is wrong. A more advanced system measures the difference between the speeds of all 4 wheels during acceleration and assumes that anything spinning faster than the slowest rotating wheel is slipping . A cheap system will apply the brakes. An expensive system will reduce the throttle until the problem goes away.
Another problem with stability control is that it's pretty harsh. The pulsing of the ABS isn't progressive. If the ABS is on, it applies full braking power followed by zero braking power.. full, zero, full, zero.. The torque from the engine that's being transferred repeatedly all the way across the drivetrain from wheel to wheel a dozen times a second, puts stress on everything. Brakes, rotors, axles, U joints, output shafts, and the differential itself.
Also stability control is really designed for emergency low traction situations and not drag racing or rallying or other long duration and many ESC today operate only at lower speeds.
The 2007 Outlander is equipped with LSD. It has ASTC in addition to LSD, not as substitution. But what was in 2006 is now irrelevant. We are almost in 2010 and while Forester AWD is downgraded, Outlander AWD is upgraded to the state of the art active differential with torque vectoring and the active center differential.
I did not research exotic/racing cars, otherwise it appears there is only 3 cars equipped with combination of active torque vectoring differential + active center differential: Outlander GT, EVO and top of the line Range Rover.
#953 of 1581 Re: ALG Residual Value Awards [ateixeira]
Dec 18, 2009 (12:38 am)
>> I'm not sure they'll make it to 2012.
At least you was sure about Borg Warner.
>> Subaru's powertrain warranty is not 3 years
Even if its 5, after 5 years the Forester cost of ownership will be higher vs. Outlander which has 10 year warranty.
>> the Subaru Bucks don't have to be used to buy a car
But you did. You saved 1500 Subaru Bucks and you've had no choice but purchase a Subaru. Now you have to mentally justify your purchase and tune your mind for the next Subaru purchase. They got you, you are enslaved, and you can't get out of that circle.