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Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester

1581 messages,  Last post on May 10, 2010 at 6:35 AM

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What is this discussion about? Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester, Car Comparisons, SUV

Messages Page 64 of 158

#631 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [chelentano] by ateixeira

Nov 04, 2009 (9:35 am)

Replying to: chelentano (Nov 03, 2009 10:36 pm)
Outlander does slalom much faster and tows much more
 
We shopped 4 cylinder models, non-turbo (so did the OP by the way), and the Forester actually tows more. It can meet that 2400# requirement someone just asked about, but the 4 banger Mitsu cannot. The V6 can, but again, this is a split decision.
 
The slalom was impressive but was that pre-production? Lowered? Summer tires? Let's see full road test from a production model. And like you said, there's a trade off between ride and handling. Big rims and stiff suspension like that means a stiff ride.
 
If you had found the 3rd row useful, your next vehicle would have had one as well. Same for the infotainment package (which forced you to violate copyright laws).
 
The carbon footprint is straight from the EPA website.
 
100% worse road side assistance
 
False, you do get roadside assistance from Subaru. You are just making this stuff up!
 
Forester has a subwoofer, too, and it doesn't waste 3 cubic feet of cargo space. You're misleading people.
 
200% bigger moonroof is about right, want to measure? The Forester's covers the front seat and the back seat. It's enormous.
 
You are listing specs for a 2010 Outlander GT that Mitsubishi has not even launched yet. None of that stuff is on their web site, in fact click on Outlander and it shows you the specs for the 2009.
 
100% more of the default front axle torque
 
That's also wrong. You probably meant rear axle, but that too would be wrong.
 
Mitsu's default split is 85/15, Subaru's in 90/10 or 80/20, depending upon who you ask. Plus the Subaru has more torque to send in the first place.
 
100% more of AWD side-to-side torque control
 
Source? I don't believe that one bit. They use the traction control system, so it's braking to retard acceleration on one axle, not actively increaseing torque to one side or the other. Misleading.
 
40% more people capacity
 
Munchkins, and even then I don't think they're safe.
 
17% more cargo volume
 
Less with a subwoofer. Plus the Forester will fit a bigger volume box (CR).
 
600% more MP3 compatible CD drives
 
Wrong yet again.
 
Did I mention 70% better warranty, 100% better road side assistance?
 
Yes, and you were wrong the first time, and now you're wrong the second time!
 
Again you are just reading a brochure, and you don't really know much about how the Forester is equipped.
 
Another contradiction - earlier you said the Hyundai has a Borg Warner AWD system from a Porsche. I don't buy it - the Porsche is primarily RWD, so first off it's backwards, not to mention it has to handle a heck of a lot more power.
 
Then you say the Chrysler AWD system has nothing to do with Mitsubishi's even though they are also supplied by Borg Warner. Your reasoning was that the Outlander is built in Japan. So? Borg Waner is an American company (NYSE: BWA). Japan is where final assembly is done, but parts come from all over the world.
 
The Forester is built in Japan with an AWD system built in Japan and not shared with the Chrysler Sebring rental car you'll find at airports in Minnesota.
 
The base Outlander not only has the Borg Warnger AWD system from a Caliber/Compass, but also the 2.4l engine and the CVT transmission. This whole powertrain is shared.
 
I notice you keep pretending the 4 cylinder Outlander does not exist. Here's where I agree with you - if I were in favor of the Outlander I would do the same thing. The engine sounds like a box of nails in a blender, 168hp is not enough for its weight, the CVT feels like a rubber band, and the AWD system...well, we know who that is shared with, and it's not Porsche!

#632 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [ateixeira] by tinycadon

Nov 04, 2009 (11:49 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 04, 2009 9:35 am)
Oh Yeah?
 
Yeah!
 
Says Who?
 
Says Me!
 
Oh Yeah?
 
Yeah!
 
Says Who?
 
Says Me!!!
 
 

#633 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [tinycadon] by ateixeira

Nov 04, 2009 (1:41 pm)

Replying to: tinycadon (Nov 04, 2009 11:49 am)
Sorry to have hi-jacked the thread.
 
I will let him tell you how the leather from his seats are made from the hides of Seabiscuit, the paddle shifters from the horns of a unicorn, and the trim from the tallest tree on Mt. Olympus.
 
Then he can explain to you why he bailed on Mitsubishi and bought a Benz. Actions speak louder than words.

#634 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [ateixeira] by chelentano

Nov 04, 2009 (10:41 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 04, 2009 9:35 am)
>>The slalom was impressive but was that pre-production? Lowered? Summer tires?
 
No, the Edmunds Inside Line web site indicates regular all-season tires. Outlander beats in slalom most of these expensive BMWs, Cayennes, MBs, Acuras, Audi, regardless if they are "lowered" (MB C-Class Sedan is much lower) or if they use sport tires. With sports tires Outlander GT will probably get closer to the top performer the $95K X6M.
.
 
>> False, you do get roadside assistance from Subaru. You are just making this stuff up!
 
No I said Outlander has better road side assistance. Subaru’s is limited to 3years or 36K miles whichever comes first, Outlander: 5y / unlimited mileage. Am I "making this stuff up"?
.
 
>> Forester has a subwoofer, too, and it doesn't waste 3 cubic feet of cargo space. You're misleading people.
 
It’s expensive and crappy dealer-installed accessory. $270 + $100 labor. How many iPods would you by for your kids without waiting for that 5 year TCO saving? The sub is tiny that’s why it could fit under the sit, therefore it would produce tiny bass. This tiny dealer installed passive sub connected to generic no name stereo, which usually is about 100 watt of amplification. Compare it to Outlander factory installed 10” brand name sub connected to brand name 710 watt amplifier.
.
 
>> 200% bigger moonroof is about right, want to measure?
 
“About right”. I just want published dimensions.
.
 
>> 600% more MP3 compatible CD drives. Wrong.
I admit I was wrong here: my apology, the Forester now does have 6 CD/MP3 changer. I guess my impression was based on different trim/year.
.
 
>> Mitsu's default split is 85/15, Subaru's in 90/10 or 80/20, depending upon who you ask.
 
If you ask Subaru, Forester’s split is only 90/10, which is nearly a part-time system.
On Outlander the default split is 85/15 in Auto mode, according to Mitsubishi. In the Lock mode the default is 78/22 which is over 120% more default torque to the rear axle vs. Forester. The Outie’s AWD is also more versatile: driver can switch from Auto to Lock to FWD mode on the go at any speed, no “fuse” needed. The GT AWD also capable of side-to-side torque transfer, no other car in this class is capable of it.
.
 
>> Another contradiction - earlier you said the Hyundai has a Borg Warner AWD system from a Porsche.
 
I did not say that. I said Porsche and Hyundai both use the ITM 3e coupling system from Borg Warner.
.
 
>> Then you say the Chrysler AWD system has nothing to do with Mitsubishi's
 
I did not say that. All I can say that Outlander has no Chrysler parts. Chrysler on the other hand could have Mitsubishi parts, why not? Even Subaru has Mitsubishi parts.
 
Also Mitsubishi builds engines for Hyundai Genesis and Daimler Smart. Peugeot and Citroen buy from Mitsu more than parts, they buy badge-engineered versions of Outlander:
 

 

 
 Volvo, Citroen, Renault, Fiat, Subaru – all use Mitsubishi turbochargers. The BMW 335i twin-turbo coupe is also using Mitsubishi turbocharger. Apparently these turbochargers are pretty good and Mitsu knows how to use turbo to the max. The EVO VIII produced spectacular 405 horsepower from its only 2.0-liter turbo engine. At 202.5 hp per liter, it has the second ever highest outputs per liter of any car engine, and it achieves 0-60 mph in 3.5 second and also spectacular lateral grip of 1.03G.
4-banger EVO vs V12 Lambo video . | . EVO vs. Ferrari

#635 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [ateixeira] by chelentano

Nov 04, 2009 (10:50 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 04, 2009 1:41 pm)
>> he can explain to you why he bailed on Mitsubishi and bought a Benz
 
I like trying new cars and I can afford them, that’s why I am not driving the same minivan half of my life. I “bail” on my car every couple of years to try something new and exciting. Sorry, but Subaru cars were not on my list: they are dependable, but basic and fell far short of being exciting.

#636 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [chelentano] by ateixeira

Nov 05, 2009 (5:04 am)

Replying to: chelentano (Nov 04, 2009 10:41 pm)
EVO is off topic here, and besides, that Edmunds track test you keep referring to summed it up right up front:
 
Is the 2010 Mitsubishi Outlander GT the Evo of crossovers? Not really
 
It's 0-60? 7.9 seconds. YAWN! My minivan suddenly seems fast.
 
I “bail” on my car every couple of years to try something new and exciting
 
7.9 seconds is not exciting, now I know why you didn't buy the 2010 GT.
 
Forester XT?
 
http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/forester/2009/testdrive.html
 
We recorded a 0-60-mph sprint of 6.8 seconds en route to a quarter-mile time of 15.1 seconds at 90.4 mph — excellent numbers for a compact SUV
 
Braking?
 
XT wins again, 125 ft vs. 130 ft.
 
Skid pad?
 
Forester on top, .76g to .75.
 
So Forester wins 3 out of 4 performance measure, Outlander takes only the slalom. Naturally, that's the only one that will matter to you.

#637 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [chelentano] by ateixeira

Nov 05, 2009 (5:12 am)

Replying to: chelentano (Nov 04, 2009 10:41 pm)
Lock mode the default is 78/22
 
In another thread you said it locked 50/50. 22% is still nearly FWD. And that's for slippery surfaces only, what happens if you forget to turn it off on dry pavement?
 
Subaru's split varies constantly according to needs, no buttons to worry about.
 
You were name-dropping - Porsche, Dakar. So I did the same thing - Dodge Caliber, Chrysler, Jeep Compass. Outlander shares plenty of DNA with Chrysler.

#638 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [ateixeira] by chelentano

Nov 05, 2009 (1:10 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 05, 2009 5:04 am)
>> It's 0-60? 7.9 seconds. YAWN! My minivan suddenly seems fast.
7.9 seconds is not exciting, now I know why you didn't buy the 2010 GT.
We recorded a 0-60-mph sprint of 6.8 seconds en route to a quarter-mile time of 15.1 seconds at 90.4 mph — excellent numbers for a compact SUV
 Braking? XT wins again, 125 ft vs. 130 ft. Skid pad? Forester on top, .76g to .75.
 So Forester wins 3 out of 4 performance measure, Outlander takes only the slalom.
 
The braking/skid pad difference is small. Skid pad tested with stability control on, that’s why Edmunds says that if you turn it off on GT, you get EVO. As for acceleration the GT’s 0-60 7.9 sec (I’ve also seen 7.4 sec in the other test) is good, better then Land Rover LR2 (9.1 sec). The Forester 6.8 sec number is very good but I would not call it exciting: Forester would not even pass Toyota RAV4, not to mention BMW X5M 4.5 sec (which is exciting). And the turbo engine is not a good choice for the utility vehicle: the payload and towing specs are poor, premium gas.
There is nothing exciting about Forester: no exciting specs, older non-exciting technology, styling borrowed from Outlander. It’s a good basic dependable car with nice Mitsubishi turbocharger. Expensive for what you get.
 
On the other hand there are quite a few exciting things about Outlander GT. The slalom handling beats almost anything, including X5M, Q5, ML63 AMG, Cayenne, RDX, MDX, and even Mercedes sedan. And this is with regular tires!
The AWD system is the most advanced in class. The entertainment package is exciting too: 710 watt, 10” sub, streaming wireless audio, 40 GB music server, Sirius, 9” rear LCD, hard drive based Nav, backup camera etc. Xenons. LEDs, Fastkey. The wireless audio streaming is exciting too. The GT is exciting for its value alone.

#639 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [chelentano] by ateixeira

Nov 05, 2009 (1:50 pm)

Replying to: chelentano (Nov 05, 2009 1:10 pm)
Actually they said: "Turn it off and there's a little Evo in this Outlander".
 
The Forester 6.8 sec number is very good but I would not call it exciting
 
You said you buy exciting cars, and that's quicker than what you spent your money on. Not to mention you have not driven a turbo.
 
premium gas
 
Recommended, same for the 230hp Outlander GT, per EPA.gov.
 
The slalom handling beats almost anything
 
Yeah, but it's a one-trick pony. That is the only thing it did well. All the other performance measures were ho-hum. Forester wins 3/4 performance tests.
 
The AWD system is the most advanced in class
 
Borg Warner supplies the same system for the Jeep Caliber and it's not Trail Rated. Edmunds noted how it felt like FWD saying "Some front wheel slip at launch". Fact is it's not sending enough power to the rear axle for them to feel like it wasn't FWD. Results speak louder than claims in a brochure.
 
They also noted pedal fade after hard braking, You sure you want to tow a trailer when the brakes can barely handle the weight of the vehicle itself?
 
Plus, you're only looking at the raw data, in their video, Inside Line said "Forester weaves through the slalom as quickly as you could expect from a compact utility." So clearly they thought it felt just fine.
 
Yes, Outlander's time was 9% quicker in the slalom, but the Forester arrives to 60mph more than 16% sooner.
 
You accelerate on merge ramps every day, probably. How often do you slalom around cones? Never.
 
Acceleration is something you can and do use daily. Braking is vital when you need it. Skidpad grip makes it fun to take those highway ramps as well. These are things you can enjoy every day.

#640 of 1581 Re: Advantages only count when it helps Mitsubishi [ateixeira] by chelentano

Nov 05, 2009 (1:57 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Nov 05, 2009 5:12 am)
>> Lock mode the default is 78/22. And that's for slippery surfaces only, what happens if you forget to turn it off on dry pavement? Subaru's split varies constantly according to needs, no buttons to worry about.
 
No, the Lock mode locks only the lower default rear axle torque, otherwise rear axle torque varies constantly 22-60% according to needs. No buttons / “fuses” to worry about ( I think early 50/50 split data was misleading in some sources). In addition torque varies side-to-side.
.
 
>> You were name-dropping - Porsche, Dakar. So I did the same thing - Dodge Caliber, Chrysler, Jeep Compass. Outlander shares plenty of DNA with Chrysler.
 
Forester uses more parts from Mitsubishi then Outlander from Chrysler (none). And Compass/Caliber don't look as close to Outlander as Forester.

Messages Page 64 of 158

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