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SUVs Mitsubishi Outlander Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester
804 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 11:55 AM
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Replying to: piast (May 15, 2008 4:48 pm) |
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 15, 2008 2:31 pm) One reason to drive in FWD is to gain 1MPG or so. For some people, and when possible, this matters and this applies to both Forester and Outlander owners. The difference is that for the Forester owners, who know about the fuse trick, is cumbersome. For the Outlander owners it's at their fingertips. For the past two weeks, in an attempt to evaluate the fuel economy in various scenarios, I switched to 2WD. I can assure you that on my daily commute I do not see ANY difference whatsoever in the driving experience.... ZERO, NADA, NIL. I drive on urban highways and city/suburban streets not on mountain or scenic back roads. If need be, I can switch to any 4WD mode, at any time and any speed, in a fraction of a second. Even more, where I live (Toronto, Canada), I can drive most of the winter in 2WD since the roads are clean and dry 1-2 days after a snowstorm (they plow the snow to the pavement and use tones of salt on the roads). This is why I appreciate the Outlander's 4WD setup since I can use whatever configuration I see fit not what the car defaults to. |
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 15, 2008 3:43 pm) Today only few econoboxes, cheap cars or older designs come with 4 A/T. Look at the industry and note that the manufactures upgrade their transmissions early in the vehicle's cycle in order to keep up - e.g. Mazda, GM, Ford and most of the newly designed models come with 5/6 A/T from day one. Now Subaru launches brand new 2008 and 2009 (!!!) models, including cars like the WRX, with 4AT. It doesn't sound too good nor it deserves any praise for that. You could trumpet as much as you want that the 4 A/T is good enough so Subaru didn't need to update, but I'm sure Subaru has a very different reason for this situation. I'm also pretty sure that the 2010 or 2011 models at the latest will have a different transmission so no, I don't think Subaru put the 4A/T in the new Forester by choice.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 15, 2008 3:43 pm) It is. But what I was saying that the shifter is just a cosmetic add-on to the Subaru antiquated tranny. And speaking of coming from the future, Mitsubishi launches the new all-electric 2+2 AWD i-MIEV Sport for 2009. According to the article it has 123 mile range and could recharge up to 80 percent in 35 minutes. You can even charge it via a wireless charger! The i-MIEV comes equipped with an auxiliary photovoltaic generator on the roof, a power generating fan inside the front grill and is also able to recharge its lithium battery when the car brakes, recuperating wasted energy. Amongst the technologies this vehicle offers energy saving LEDs, heat absorbing glass to reduce heat gain within the vehicle and the interior components of the vehicle use environmentally friendly plant-based resin developed by Mitsu. And this is not a rumor or concept, this is a real production vehicle. Subaru on the other hand is coming from the past, chasing fuel economy standards with its first ever diesel engine, being generations behind from the rest of the world.  Mitsubishi Launches New Electric Sports Car Mitsubishi's iMiEV to Feature Solar, Wind Power, 2009 Release |
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Good grief. Why is it that we have to bash on the manufacturers? Yes, Subaru uses a 4-speed A/T on the '09 Forester. However, Mitsubishi uses a 4-speed A/T on the 4-cylinder versions of the '09 Galant, '09 Eclipse, and '08 Endeavor. Both manufacturers probably did this to control cost and ensure reliability. Regardless, one buys a car because of the sum of its parts, not individual pieces. I really don't see any reason (nor do I find it helpful) to describe the technology used, or the vehicles in question, as "antiquated" or "fragile". If Subaru is supposedly using a 20-year old AWD system, then Mitsubishi was using a 25 year old engine design (the venerable 4G63T) in EVO's up to iteration IX. Both work(ed) exceedingly well. BTW, I am actually partial to Mitsubishi. However, that does not stop me from being open-minded, factual, and polite (if I were in the market I would definitely seriously consider both of these vehicles). I feel that the juvenile tone, the tangent topics, and lack of facts in a good number of the posts over the past 27 pages is to the detriment of this entire discussion. Let's keep this on topic, shall we. Though interesting and innovative, Boxer Diesel from Subaru (the world's first Horizontally opposed diesel) and the iMiev Sport from Mitsubishi, this is not the right thread for them. |
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Replying to: dodo2 (May 15, 2008 8:39 pm) You guys are way off base making assumptions about the logic behind the 4AT. The Outlander is a boring old small SUV. Every Subaru (except the Tribeca) are performance vehicles detuned to several different levels. They are like LEGOs, and they all can swap components to become superior even to stock STI level, without a lot of fuss, time, or money. That 4AT in an Outback I was just looking at was putting down 470hp at the crank. None of their manuals can handle that much power, so there is no point for them developing a semi-automatic from them. It has nothing to do with one company being stupid over the other, Subaru just knows they have a niche market, and the computer geeks (me) will be toying with the engine. If they have a robust tranny, thats the important thing. And since they absolutely have to use it on the turbo versions, there is little point developing 2 different ones for the FX and FXT. And don't go off-topic on electric cars. Subaru's been in the news for their e-car just as much as Mitsu. And how are they chasing the past when the Boxer diesel was among the first aluminum block diesels to go mainstream? How is a company that is first in many things behind the times? They're not.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 16, 2008 4:45 am) Please tell me which components I can swap to make the Forester "superior" to the STi, without a lot of "fuss", time, or money. You make it sound I can literally take components out from one Subaru car and bolt it on to the Forester without any modification. I'd love to hear your recommendations.
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 16, 2008 4:45 am) But it turns out, Subaru didn't give you that choice, so you actually have NO choice but to drive AWD all the time. While Mitsubishi gave us the choice to switch to 2WD when cruising on the freeway, without stopping, even at speeds of 65mph or above.
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Replying to: rcpax (May 16, 2008 5:19 am) Actually you try to sound skeptically cynical, but I wouldn't have gone there. It is actually exactly as you say ( up to 2008 ). My brother's Forester has: STI turbo STI intercooler Full turbo-back exhaust That alone got it to 300hp. It took 1 day with myself helping and 1 guy to run the laptop for the open-source tune. All the parts were used off of an STI that it itself had been upgraded, and had no more use for them. The turbo needed the hoses and gaskets swapped, but indeed no further mods necessary to the car. His next step is sway-bars, springs, and tires. Here's the goal. They only sold it in Japan, but its been done. And its easy enough to do yourself. Impreza vs. Forester Enjoy.
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Replying to: rcpax (May 16, 2008 5:25 am) Precisely. Part-time AWD would actually be something I looked down on the Forester if it had. I can adjust the suspension on my Suby so that I can get it to handle in the exact orientation I want. At that point, there would never be a purpose to change near-perfect grip and handling by swapping to a different mode. And believe me, if you felt how effortlessly my car takes ramps and corners, and then got in a FWD car, it is not only noticeable, its dangerous. I have to remind myself when I get into a FWD car that I have to slow way down. I'm not talking about spirited driving, I'm talking how I do not have to brake for even extremely tight corners. It just doesn't occur to me that I have to until I'm in a FWD car. My car practically straightens out roads with a blip of the throttle.
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