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Mitsubishi Outlander vs. Subaru Forester

1581 messages,  Last post on May 10, 2010 at 6:35 AM

You are in the Mitsubishi Outlander Forum.

What is this discussion about? Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester, Car Comparisons, SUV

Messages Page 21 of 159

#197 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [kdshapiro] by dodo2

Apr 28, 2008 (10:04 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Apr 27, 2008 7:19 pm)
No offence, but from some of your posts it seems like you are not familiar with the 4WD system in the Outlander. You may want to read this:
 
2007 Mitsubishi Outlander 4WD System Explained
 
When in FWD mode, the power goes to the front only. This is supposed to be the economical mode, but in my experience, the fuel saving is marginal - around 1 mpg or so. Going by how some are hooked on 1-2 mpg fuel economy gain, it may make sense to use it.
When in the "4WD Auto" mode - AKA "normal" mode, the power goes to both front and rear, so I think it’s as full-time 4WD as the Forester. The percentage varies depending on the driving conditions, up to 15% of the power goes to the rear in normal driving or up to 40% under certain conditions like full throttle acceleration or slippage.
When in "4WD Lock" - true, the label is misleading, 50% more power is sent to the rear for up to 60%. This mode is recommended for low traction conditions or maximum straight-line acceleration. According to Mitsubishi, this mode does not lock the torque distribution in a 50-50 split. The split could go as high as 40/60 as needed.
Note that you can switch between the modes at any speed and it holds the setting regardless of the speed. You have three setups to choose from, but 4WD Auto is all you really need most of the time.
 
I keep mine in 4WD Auto all the time, and I did not have to use the 4WD Lock mode even when I was driving through 1ft. of show last winter (on stock tires). In several occasions last winter, I took the Outlander through deep snow, with ice underneath, on hilly side roads, to test its limits, but I couldn’t get it stuck or even close. I stopped in deep snow and started off from a stand still, but I had no problems. This tells me that the setup works very well for its purpose.
 
Now, I haven't seen a Subaru OFFICIAL, detailed explanation of the AWD system in the 2009 Forester so I cannot really comment on (do you?). If you have an official description please share the link.
However, on the Forester vs Outlander 4WD system debate, unless we see them tested under the same conditions and by a third-party, any claim about which one is better is just another “mine is better than yours” discussion.

#198 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [dodo2] by kdshapiro

Apr 28, 2008 (11:20 am)

Replying to: dodo2 (Apr 28, 2008 10:04 am)
No offence, but from some of your posts it seems like you are not familiar with the 4WD system in the Outlander. You may want to read this:
 
No offense taken, I'm always willing to learn. Seems there are some who don't understand the Symmetrical AWD either or don't care to find out. Thanks for the link.
 
The Symmetrical AWD doesn't need to have full throttle acceleration to transfer power to the rear as the article states for the Outlander. Stepping on the gas from a stop causes torque to be rear biased on the Forester. In addition, one doesn't have to choose economy FWD mode as under constant throttle torque bias settles to the front. Step on the gas, make a turn or de-accelerate and torque will shift. So there are some similarities and some differences between the two.
 
My comment and I stand by it, is if AWD full time were the only option gas mileage on the Outlander would be even worse than it is. It's a klunky design to boost FE. Some people may not care, some do.

#199 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [kdshapiro] by ateixeira

Apr 28, 2008 (11:49 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Apr 28, 2008 11:20 am)
I'm telling you, all we need is one of each and access to one of those ramps that tests if one axle (or even one wheel) can drive the vehicle up the ramp.
 
If anyone knows of a local 4x4 club, they often have access to those to test their locking diffs.
 
Theory is great, but the bottom line is can it perform in the toughest of conditions - an uphill climb with traction to only a single wheel.
 
Run 'em both up, and put the AWD debate to bed.

#200 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [kdshapiro] by dodo2

Apr 28, 2008 (12:49 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Apr 28, 2008 11:20 am)
The Symmetrical AWD doesn't need to have full throttle acceleration to transfer power to the rear as the article states for the Outlander.
 
I’m not sure if you purposely misinterpret the information, but the article clearly states that under normal driving conditions, up to 15% of the torque is sent to the rear. So no, you do not need full-throttle to send the power to the rear. Under full-throttle, more power, like in more than 15% is sent to the rear, up to 40%. The amounts above are 50% higher if the car is in "4WD Lock" mode.
  
My comment and I stand by it, is if AWD full time were the only option gas mileage on the Outlander would be even worse than it is. It's a klunky design to boost FE. Some people may not care, some do.
 
No. The Outlander's EPA numbers for the 4WD models are in 4WD mode and for the 4-cylinder model are at par with the Forester (and the rest of the compact SUVs). The V6 version is lower by about 2 mpg combined, as any reasonable person would expect.
 
The 2WD setting on the Outlander is only meant to slightly improve the baseline (in 4WD Auto mode) and not to accomplish the EPA published fuel economy. I would say it's nice to have all these settings although personally I chose to use 4WD Auto all the time. I know some Outlander owners drive around in 2WD during the summer time to further save some gas.

#201 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [dodo2] by kdshapiro

Apr 28, 2008 (1:46 pm)

Replying to: dodo2 (Apr 28, 2008 12:49 pm)
I’m not sure if you purposely misinterpret the information
 
When "4WD Auto" mode is selected, the Outlander 4WD system always sends some power to the rear wheels, automatically increasing the amount under full-throttle acceleration. The coupling transfers up to 40 percent of available torque to the rear wheels under full-throttle acceleration, and this is reduced to 25 percent over 40 mph. At steady cruising speeds, up to 15 percent of available torque is sent to the rear wheels. At low speeds through tight corners, coupling torque is reduced, providing a smoother feel through the corner.
 
Nope don't think I misinterpeted anything.
 
Additionally, how do you know with what mode the testing was done?

#202 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [kdshapiro] by dodo2

Apr 28, 2008 (2:44 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Apr 28, 2008 1:46 pm)
When "4WD Auto" mode is selected, the Outlander 4WD system always sends some power to the rear wheels, automatically increasing the amount under full-throttle acceleration. The coupling transfers up to 40 percent of available torque to the rear wheels under full-throttle acceleration, and this is reduced to 25 percent over 40 mph. At steady cruising speeds, up to 15 percent of available torque is sent to the rear wheels. At low speeds through tight corners, coupling torque is reduced, providing a smoother feel through the corner.
 
If you would read the whole sentence, you would understand that:
"When "4WD Auto" mode is selected, the Outlander 4WD system ALWAYS SENDS SOME POWER TO THE REAR WHEELS, automatically INCREASING the amount under full-throttle acceleration."
 
Plus:
"AT STEADY CRUISING SPEEDS, UP TO 15 PERCENT OF AVAILABLE TORQUE IS SENT TO THE REAR WHEELS."
 
Additionally, how do you know with what mode the testing was done?
 
Basic common sense. EPA publishes fuel economy numbers for the following Outlander models:
2.4L 4-cylinder 2WD
2.4L 4-cylinder 4WD
3.0L 6-cylinder 2WD
3.0L 6-cylinder 4WD
 
Why would they test a 4WD vehicle in 2WD mode when they tested the same 2WD model?
The question I don't have an answer to would be which of the two 4WD modes did they test. If you assume they tested the worst-case scenario for fuel economy, it would be the 4WD Lock. If they tested the "normal" mode, it would be the 4WD Auto. In any case, the logic would say they tested one of the 4WD modes for the 4WD models.

#203 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [dodo2] by kdshapiro

Apr 28, 2008 (3:55 pm)

Replying to: dodo2 (Apr 28, 2008 2:44 pm)
The way I'm interpeting your explanation this is normal traveling bias is about 15% to the rear wheels, under full throttle acceleration additional torque can be transferred to the rear wheel. So it seems torque to the rear end is either a nominal 15% or 40% under full acceleration.
 
Why would they test a 4WD vehicle in 2WD mode when they tested the same 2WD model?
 
You tell me. Sounds like you don't know either. AWD is optional, if they didn't specify all one can do is wonder.

#204 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [dodo2] by piast

Apr 28, 2008 (4:12 pm)

Replying to: dodo2 (Apr 28, 2008 12:49 pm)
"I know some Outlander owners drive around in 2WD during the summer time to further save some gas."
That would be me. I drive most of the year in 2WD, and switch to 4WD only on wet, slippery or icy roads. That's the way I drove my old, real 4X4 SUV for 8 years, that's the reason I selected Outlander - to have a choice and save on gas, not the space or utility. My friend is driving 4 cyl Outback, with fuel economy of my wife V6 Accord. Many people, including me, don't see any need to drive in AWD all the time. This must be the reason Subarus are not selling that well in southern part of the country. People are refusing to pay premium for AWD system they don't need. Traction & stability control + ABS should take care of any wet road in FWD vehicle. Since here in Chicago we may have snow just a few times in winter (except last winter ) , 4WD Outlander with 2/4WD selector make perfect sense.

#205 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [kdshapiro] by piast

Apr 28, 2008 (4:36 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Apr 28, 2008 3:55 pm)
"So it seems torque to the rear end is either a nominal 15% or 40% under full acceleration. "
No, it is anything between, and depends on the throttle position, ASC sensors, etc, same as it is in a Subaru, only % is different. Those numbers are 50% higher in 4WD Lock mode. But you already know that.

#206 of 1581 Re: continued from Forester thread [piast] by kdshapiro

Apr 28, 2008 (5:24 pm)

Replying to: piast (Apr 28, 2008 4:36 pm)
No, it is anything between, and depends on the throttle position, ASC sensors, etc, same as it is in a Subaru, only % is different.
That is not what I interpeted, I noticed full throttle is used a few times in the description. In my owners manual it says acceleration, deacceleration, slippage and other factors.
 
I've seen FWD bias AWD vehicles spin out in the rain. I have yet to spin the tires in my XT when I step on the gas. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Subaru is clearly a niche manufacturer, but what they do they do excellently.

Messages Page 21 of 159

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