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Toyota Yaris, Chevrolet Aveo, Car Comparisons, Hatchback
#9 of 34 Re: Better is relative... [timseh]
Feb 02, 2008 (8:17 pm)
2 mpg highway and 5 mpg city for the average of 3.5 mpg difference. Either of these cars is more suited to city use in my opinion. If you drive it 150k, resale does make little difference. The Fit has been very in demand and just about all Hondas have the highest resale value even versus Toyota. It will be a big surprise if the Fit does not have the best resale value in the class.
150k miles divided by Yaris 32.5 mpg = 4615 gallons
150k miles divided by Aveo 29.0 mpg = 5172 gallons
The difference is 557 gallons saved times $3 a gallon is $1671.00.
If gas continues upward and averages $4 over the lifetime, it will be $2228.00.
Hope the initial savings plus interest offsets the reduced gas costs and the difference in values at the end of the cars' lives.
I just saw a 2007 Aveo5 used with 8000 miles for $6995. Now that might be a ticket to savings.
#10 of 34 Re: Better is relative... [ttai]
Feb 03, 2008 (6:04 am)
No one said that they were the only ones lying to their customers about service ralated issues, I just said that is part of their corporate game (not dealer) as a whole in how they opperate. In my upbringing Chevrolet had/has a great reputation for reliability as well as longevity. The old saying is buy a Chevrolet and it will be the last vehicle you will buy. My 1992 S10 p/u will just not die but is pretty rusty. While there are still a lot of 1970's and 80's Chevrolets on the road, here in the midwest it is rare to see a 1980's Toyota still on the road. Just to let you know or remind you Toyota has the worst customer service satisfaction in the industry per a JD Powers survey last year if I recall the survey company correctly.
#11 of 34 Re: Better is relative... [timseh]
Feb 06, 2008 (2:49 pm)
sorry to tell you but none of these small korean subcompacts are gonna give you that kind of longevity, I've had chevy ford and vw and toyota, only the toyota and old beetle gave me 200,000 miles of life without sending the mechanic's kid to college. the others got to be unreliableand I was forced to trade them away
#12 of 34 Re: Better is relative... [toyoman3]
Feb 06, 2008 (4:17 pm)
but but but, what about the story of that guy that my friend knows that never had any problems with his Hyundai? What about the vast Toyota conspiracy to trick us into believing our cars are reliable? What about GM's latest reports that their cars are way more awesome than Toyota's. What are you, a Communist?
#13 of 34 Re: Better is relative... [toyoman3]
Feb 06, 2008 (7:14 pm)
I think the key word in your statement is "had". I've driven the Yaris. It wasn't up to par, fit & finish wise with the Aveo IMO.
Toyota has a well deserved reputation for high quality cars, but the Yaris (and the Echo before it) were built primarily to be cheap and efficient. That comes at a cost and it was obvious to me when I drove one what that cost was.
The engine in the Chevy Aveo is old technology. It's showing its age in numerous ways. Namely, it doesn't pack as many ponies as similarly sized engines from the competition (Toyota and Honda among them), it's a little "rough" when it comes to noise, etc. But it is proven technology and I haven't heard of any substantial problems with it. There have been some issues with things like leaking oil plugs because of bad washers, and some bad timing belts, but I don't think you'll find any car at all that hasn't experienced some issues along the way.
Yes, the Aveo was built to be "cheap and efficient" too. I'm aware of that and I'm aware of the trade offs I made in buying one instead of say, a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla or Camry. But... I think the Yaris, the Aveo and the Hyundai Accent, as well as the Kia Rio, are all pretty much in the same class when it comes to how reliable they're going to be. They're all at the bottom end of their product lines, and it shows to one degree or another, in all of them.
I think Hyundai has gone a long way to proving that the days of Japanese dominance when it comes to reliability and quality at a low price are coming to a close. I'm saddened by the fact that no American manufacturer has stepped up to the plate in this regard. GM has a leg up on the competition with the Aveo. Ford and Chrysler have nothing in this class, which means they essentially give up that segment of the market entirely.
The old Beetle was a dream of a car. But we'll never see the likes of it again, thanks to safety regulations. Oh, and of course, the 1971 Beetle packed a whopping 60 horses under the hood. Funny, I don't remember Beetle drivers complaining about that back then. And many Beetles that weren't reduced to Iron Oxide dust by North American road salt are still being lovingly cared for by collectors. Being sold today used for more than they sold for when new.
That's what we need is another Beetle. Cheap enough for anyone with a steady job to buy, good on gas, and not painful to drive.
OK, I'm rambling now. Need another beer. I'll shut up.
#14 of 34 The age-old axiom told as the reason
Feb 07, 2008 (9:20 pm)
for the domestics falling way behind in the race to build and sell a great small car is that they can't make a profit building and selling them. How depressing if you want to stay domestic in your purchases.
I will say this, GM made a hella-smart move when they bought out Daewoo and formed their GM Daewoo Auto & Technology Company in 2002. That gave them access to all of Daewoo they wanted to pick from, drawings, workers , factories in South Korea, etc. And a great inroad in to the Asian automotive market. Twas a keen and cunning move, because their partnership with SAIC was already working well for them and GM is hugely popular in China with their vehicles. China is the 2nd largest automotive market in the world right now, behind the U.S.
Lately GM has been working on small rigs a lot more and let's hope something bright, shiny and new will emerge. The Volt sounds like a money pit. I have seen some nice concepts in car magazines coming from Chevy in the last year or so and some of them genuinely look very, very promising, both in mechanical design and body design. I think some good things are gonna emerge from The General in the next year to five years and on. The Aveo seems to have some ticky-tack issues that have come up but nothing too worrisome, IIRC. The new '09 hatchback looks good, too.
#15 of 34 Re: Better is relative... [timseh]
Feb 08, 2008 (6:08 am)
My first and only sub-compact car as of yet was the imported 1988 Pontiac Lemans (Daewoo). It had a whole 74 hp which was more than enough for the average driver. With its standard 4-speed I rarely was the one left behind at the toll both. In fact I accelerated out in front most everytime. People are just spoiled by this horsepower war which does nothing for the consumer but burn more gas, cause more accidents, and give us more speeding tickets to name a few.
Feb 10, 2008 (9:38 am)
isn't that the Daewoo-made Pontiac that has such a bad rep in the U.S.? I mean, people just cringe when they talk about the car. But your experience was positive with the car, it sure sounds like anyway.
Comments on the Lemans from Daewoo/Pontiac?
#17 of 34 Re: poncho167... [iluvmysephia1]
Feb 12, 2008 (10:41 am)
Some people talked bad about it but I don't know to what extent. The fit and finish coming from the final assembly point in Korea wasn't very good with some slightly mis-matched panels upon close inspection in the back by the hatchback. The welds didn't look too finished either. I saw one of these on the road last year in ok shape. My car got pretty good mileage and was fun to drive. I bought the bone stock model with only the AM/FM radio and floor mats as an option. I had them take the radio back for a credit and put an Alpine in there. It had no air conditioning or power features except for the standard power brakes, but that was all right. I think I paid the $5,990 asking price which was $1,000 more than the Yugo I believe. I should have gotten the VW Fox but that was like $7,500 or so and who knows how much to repair should something go wrong. I on the Lemans I really didn't need power steering with such a small car especially at speed. The car, at least in my experience had electrical problems and sometimes when it rained or if there was a lot of moisture in the air it may not start. The problem was a design flaw that had the ignition coil on the bottom of the car. Other than that if I can say so, it was a great runabout. I got rid of it because I felt it was too small and dangerous and I needed a small truck to haul a dirt bike.
The Opel Kadet which shared a similar body style had great fanfare in Europe and the Lemans did have that German Getrag 4-speed manual trans which was descent.
#18 of 34 Yeah, Getrag is a very
Feb 15, 2008 (9:01 am)
competent manual transmission producer. So, other than a few electrical and moisture intrusion problems and some fit and finish issues the car was decent. That price was sure right, for sure.