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Are PHEV more expensive to run than gas powered cars?

7 messages,  Last post on Mar 05, 2008 at 12:07 PM

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#4 of 7 Re: Are PHEV more expensive to run than gas powered cars? [landrigan] by tpe Mar 05, 2008 (6:32 am)
Replying to: landrigan (Jan 23, 2008 10:10 am) The Toyota RAV4 EV got about 4 miles per kWh in real world driving. So 40 miles would use 10 kWh of electricity. At ~10 cents per kWh that comes out to $1.00. My guess is the traditional, ICE, RAV4 would burn at least 1 1/2 gallons of gas to travel 40 miles. At $3/gallon that's $4.50 or 4 1/2 times as expensive as the EV. With all the engineering effort that GM is placing on squeezing every bit of efficiency out of the Volt I suspect it will be able to achieve 5 miles per kWh. If so then it's cost to go 40 miles will only be 80 cents. Assuming $3/gallon gas to arrive at a comparable cost with an traditional ICE vehicle you would need to get 150 mpg.   Of course that's just looking at fuel and electricity costs. These PHEVs will certainly come with a price premium. How much that will be and whether or not the government offers tax breaks is unclear. My crystal ball tells me that when PHEVs first become available they probably won't make sense from a purely financial perspective. However they will be popular because there are a lot of early adopters out there that care about other things besides the bottom line. Over time the price premium should come down and the cost of gas will probably continue to rise. Meaning that eventually a PHEV or EV will make financial sense any way you want to look at it. Replies to this message: larsb (Mar 05, 2008 7:23 am) tpe (Mar 05, 2008 9:45 am) larsb (Mar 05, 2008 12:07 pm)
#5 of 7 Re: Are PHEV more expensive to run than gas powered cars? [tpe] by larsb Mar 05, 2008 (7:23 am)
Replying to: tpe (Mar 05, 2008 6:32 am) Does any car make sense from "purely a financial standpoint?" Nope, unless you are an investor buying a collector car which you KNOW FOR A FACT that you can make a big profit from at resale.   And since there will not be another Volt to compare it to, the Volt will not have a "price premium" over anything else. You will buy a Volt and get a Volt, and what it will cost you will have no comparison point to another vehicle.   I can't wait for the option to buy a 5-passenger EV or PHEV. Hurry up, carmakers !!! Replies to this message: tpe (Mar 05, 2008 9:45 am) larsb (Mar 05, 2008 12:07 pm)
#6 of 7 Re: Are PHEV more expensive to run than gas powered cars? [larsb] by tpe Mar 05, 2008 (9:45 am)
Replying to: larsb (Mar 05, 2008 7:23 am) You're right, buying a car is almost never a good financial investment. However if you are going to buy a car and compare all the costs of the models you are considering one will be the least bad investment. Making it a relatively good investment.   The Volt will have no other car that it can be directly compared to but it will still be possible to come up with a ballpark figure for the price premium based upon other vehicles with similar utility and performance. My guess is that this will be over $5k, maybe closer to $10k. However I also believe that there will be tax credits worth around $3k. We'll see. Regardless if GM can deliver this vehicle at the end of 2010, which is their target, I think it will have tremendous initial success. Replies to this message: larsb (Mar 05, 2008 12:07 pm)
#7 of 7 Re: Are PHEV more expensive to run than gas powered cars? [tpe] by larsb Mar 05, 2008 (12:07 pm)
Replying to: tpe (Mar 05, 2008 9:45 am) I think the only thing you can successfully compare it to would be other EVs or PHEVs for sale at the same time. No other hybrid or diesel car will give you what an EV/PHEV will give you. It's a whole different class of vehicle. Comparing it to any other type of propulsion would be sheer speculation.   It's not a premium at all - it's an "plug-in electric option."   And, you cannot put a monetary value on the thrill and the emotion of being an "early adopter." Those owners of the first few hundred available Volts or MiEVs will be temporary superstars at home, at work, and in their social circle. That's an added benefit that most people enjoy.

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