Last post on Sep 28, 2012 at 6:48 PM
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#305 of 314 Re: The New 54.5 MPG Mandate [hpmctorque]
Aug 29, 2012 (9:27 am)
To give a rough point of reference, the 2012 Fusion hybrid gets a combined rating of about 54.1 mpg, while the Camry hybrid is around 54.8. Now these are the raw laboratory numbers, which are the ones they use for CAFE fleet averages, and not what you see on the window sticker. The window sticker would probably read about 43-44 mpg combined.
There will still be high-powered, thirsty vehicles, but they'll be sold in fewer numbers. And the auto makers will probably just do what they've always done...sell more high-efficiency cars, even if it's at a loss, to offset the more profitable cars.
For instance, a 2012 Nissan Leaf, which is all electric, actually has a raw fuel efficiency rating of 141 mpg. Maybe they do an estimate of how much fuel would need to be burned to generate the electricity it uses? Anyway, the 370Z gets about 27 mpg combined.
No, you'd think that if they sell three 370Z's and one Leaf, that average would come out to around 54.5 mpg. But, they use a weighted average, which takes into account how much fuel is actually used, and not just the average of the EPA ratings. I think the weighted average of three 370's and one Leaf would be around 33.9 mpg, if I'm doing the math correctly.
With a weighted average, in this case, I think they'd have to sell two Leafs to cancel out one 370Z. In this case, the weighted average would be around 58.8 mpg.
#306 of 314 Re: The New 54.5 MPG Mandate [andre1969]
Aug 29, 2012 (7:51 pm)
Thanks for the explanation. The problem, as I see it, is that the demand for Leafs and similar vehicles is low, even with government incentives. We'll see how Tesla and Fisker do.
I'll acknowledge that I'm against government incentives, and special access to HOV lanes and parking privileges since the rest of us have to pay to sell vehicles that have low appeal.
#307 of 314 Re: The New 54.5 MPG Mandate [hpmctorque]
Aug 30, 2012 (3:59 pm)
"the demand for Leafs and similar vehicles is low, even with government incentives"
GM just had to shut down Volt production again, they've sold something like 10k, hoped to sell 40k/year. So yeah, how many $60k - $100k Teslas are they going to sell?
#308 of 314 Re: The New 54.5 MPG Mandate [texases]
Aug 30, 2012 (5:03 pm)
It'll take a major breakthrough in battery or recharging technology for electrics to become competitive with internal combustion engines. In the meantime ICEs keep getting more efficient, so they're a moving target.
Aug 31, 2012 (6:35 am)
thanks for all the comments...but I'd like to ask that we not deviate from the original intent of this topic--which is the relationship between classic car prices and economic market conditions.
I think that Automotive News has plenty of topics where your discussion might fit in.
#310 of 314 Re: return to Topic [Mr_Shiftright]
Sep 28, 2012 (11:18 am)
Ok, I'll throw a question out to the group here ... (I just found this topic today).
If you had $5K to spend on a toy (like fin's fintail), what would you get? Not a project, something that can be driven on weekends and nice summer evenings without breaking the bank for maintenance.
60's US iron? Something British? German?
What if the budget was upped to $10K?
#311 of 314 Re: return to Topic [michaell]
Sep 28, 2012 (12:33 pm)
I don't know what to suggest - depends on your driving style, aesthetic preferences, and what size of car you want. But in the under 10K market, there is a lot of nice enough 50s-70s metal to choose from.
#312 of 314 Re: return to Topic [michaell]
Sep 28, 2012 (3:56 pm)
I would probably buy the nicest 1977-1979 Cadillac, Buick, or Oldsmobile C-Body I could find.
I'd start looking for the nicest 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood out there.
#313 of 314 Re: return to Topic [lemko]
Sep 28, 2012 (5:11 pm)
I might try and find a clean 1st gen Scirocco or GTI, just a lot of fun. Not many around...but I did see a Scirocco on the way home today, with the whole 80's thing, louvered rear window, etc.
#314 of 314 Re: return to Topic [michaell]
Sep 28, 2012 (6:48 pm)
I've never owned a Corvette, so for $10,000 I'd take my chances on one.
The $5,000 car would be something impulsive out of Craigslist that caught my fancy. It could be almost anything. One example would be a nice old Prelude. On the other end of the specturm it could be a Buick Regal or Pontiac Grand Prix with the supercharged 3800.