Last post on Jan 07, 2010 at 7:50 AM
You are in the Acura TSX
What is this discussion about?
Acura TSX, Car Buying, Sedan
#48 of 368 Re: don't forget (dairyshick) (nippononly) [hpmctorque]
Apr 25, 2008 (6:54 am)
"If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today"
Yeah, but that's not the way it works with cars, particularly "all new" models introduced during a recession. Take any model of car and track its base price backwards in time. They don't generally rise at the rate of inflation.
Example: VW Passat turbo (base engine). List in 2002 was $23,375. Base price today for the '08 is $23,990 according to Edmunds.
Example: 2002 Acura TL, list $29,360. The 2008 Acura TL, a car that I think we can all agree was COMPLETELY remade and enormously improved for MY 2004, lists at $33,725, a barely 2% increase per year.
Example: BMW 3-series. In 2002 the base model was the 325i, listing at $32,465. The 2008 base model is the 328i, listing at $32,400. Makes the 328i look like a bargain today, huh?!
My point is, car prices do not rise at the same rate as inflation.
And yes, as you stated, the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made."
It is in this area that I find it coming up short. I have now driven it (I am on my dealer's listserve as I used to own an Acura, so I was invited to come drive it now that dealers have it in stock) and find it to be not notably improved from the '04 I drove before, in terms of driving dynamics and performance. Yes, there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake.
#49 of 368 Re: don't forget (dairyshick) (nippononly) (biker4)
Apr 25, 2008 (7:44 am)
biker4: Interesting information about future Acuras, biker4. I had read something similar to what you wrote recently, but didn't have confidence in my source. Conversion to RWD for most of its models makes perfect sense for Acura, though, if they're serious about competing with the top tier luxury brands in world markets.
If Acura is going to retain one FWD model, shouldn't that be the TSX, rather than the TL? The tradeoffs favoring FWD tend to be greatest in smaller, four cylinder cars than larger sixes, just as the the greatest relative advantages of RWD are in high torque V8s, V10s, and V12 applications.
nippononly: "...the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325..."
You meant BMW, of course.
"... there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake."
I agree 100%. Telematics generally doesn't excite me much, although I appreciate certain features, such as traction control, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control. These are wonderful features. I can't warm up to features such as lane departure alerts or controls, or automatic parking. Beeps, vibrations and other alerts would be especially annoying to me. I may exclude certain luxury models from consideration in the future, because they tend to be crammed with telematic features that have a negative value for me.
#50 of 368 My observation
Apr 26, 2008 (8:29 am)
#51 of 368 Re: don't forget (dairyshick) (nippononly) (biker4) [hpmctorque]
Apr 27, 2008 (11:05 am)
On the surface it might make sense to keep the TSX FWD but there's a couple of reasons I don't think it will happen. First the TL is so established, like the ES was for Lexus, they can't kill its formula. Unlike now where they basically have 3 mid sized sedans, if/when they switch to RWD, there'll be much bigger difference in sizes. So the TSX would actually shrink to not only make it different from the RL in the US but also different from the EuroAccord in other markets. Because in other markets badge engineering doesn't work the TSX has to be RWD to differentiate it from Honda offerings.
May 02, 2008 (6:42 pm)
I looiked at and sat in the '09 TSX at the Acura dealer, but didn't test drive it. The '09 looks better from the side and from the back, in my opinion, than the previous generation TSX. The front doesn't look as good, and while I'm not a fan of the new grille, I could live with it. The interior of the new model looks better, but I miss the faux wood grain applications that came with some color combinations, and doesn't in the '09. All '09s come with the brushed metal look. It's contemporary, but I prefer the older wood grain look.
The biggest weakness of the interior is the modest rear seat leg room. It's rather tight back there, unless the front passengers put their seats up quite a bit.
May 03, 2008 (1:27 am)
I should add that the wheelbase and overall length of the '09 TSX are 1 1/2 inches longer and 2 inches longer, respectively, than those of the '08 TSX. Also, the rear seat leg room of the TSX is slightly less than that of the Honda Civic (34.3 inches vs. 34.6 inches) and 1.8 inches less than the '08 Ford Focus 4 door. Further, the BMW 3-Series sedan provides .3 inches more leg room, despite being RWD and 8 inches shorter overall than the '09 TSX. These comparisons were made using Edmund's New Car Comparison Specs.
Keep these comparisons in mind if you should try the back seat of the new TSX, and see if you don't agree that, given the increased size of the car, Acura should have provided rear seat passengers with greater leg room. The considerable increase in width of the new model doesn't compensate for the lack of more back seat legroom. It's disappointing.
May 16, 2008 (12:14 pm)
Edmunds full test of the new TSX is very unflattering. In view of this, I'll be following the sales figures of this car with much interest. They'll say a lot about whether buyers of this car put more value on styling, options, and Acura's reliability than the driving experience, which isn't great, according to Edmunds.
I hope the '09 TL fares better than the TSX.
#55 of 368 Re: Full Test [hpmctorque]
May 16, 2008 (7:11 pm)
Holy Smokes! You weren't kidding! I saw your post and went to read the review:
"To its credit, the redesigned 2009 Acura TSX doesn't try to hide its aversion to fast driving."
Steering: "Worse, the new setup has an unsettling lack of predictability. It doesn't deliver a sense of secure stability when the TSX is pointed straight ahead on the freeway and it also takes too long for the power assist to drop away as your speed increases."
Acceleration: "The 2009 Acura TSX is also an easy mark for almost any family sedan with a V6, especially when equipped with the five-speed automatic. We tested a TSX with the five-speed and its 0-to-60-mph time fell to 8.6 seconds (8.3 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). That's slower than all four of the family sedans in our last comparison test which included the Chevrolet Malibu, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry."
Handling: "There's considerable body roll and the P225/50R17 Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 all-season tires run out of grip quickly. And the lack of steering feedback makes you feel like you're driving the 2009 TSX half-blind"
"This has real consequences in the slalom, where the Acura averages only 64.1 mph, one of the slowest speeds we've recorded among current-day, premium-brand cars. It's 1.5 mph slower than a 3,600-pound Honda Accord EX-L V6. Even a Mitsubishi Lancer with a weakling 2.0-liter engine and a power-sapping continuously variable transmission beats the TSX through the cones with a 65.4-mph speed"
Braking: "But this particular set of brakes for the 2009 Acura TSX isn't fully up to the task of stopping a 3,400-pound car"
"The TSX won't stop any shorter from 60 mph than 127 feet, which is 14 feet farther than an all-wheel-drive Lexus IS 250 that weighs 100 pounds more (and costs the same). The TSX's brakes fade dramatically after just one stop, and there's smoke coming off the rotors by the third run. The car isn't happy. We're not happy"
Wow. This might be a first for Honda, they have managed to design and build the antithesis of a driver's car. Worse yet, they have designated it an Acura, their "premium brand".
#56 of 368 Move this thread
May 18, 2008 (10:05 am)
Hosts - the car has been out for a month, it doesn't need to be in the future section.