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2009 Acura TSX

364 messages,  Last post on Sep 21, 2009 at 9:27 AM

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What is this discussion about? Acura TSX, Car Buying, Sedan

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#41 of 364 I disagree (dairyshick) by hpmctorque Apr 24, 2008 (5:26 am)
I don't disagree with your comments about performance (the TSX offers enough for my needs) and value, if it weren't for the fact that you get an even better value proposition in a Honda. If the RDX turbo engine had come standard in the TSX, at no increase in price, it would have differentiated the Acura sufficiently from the Accord to appeal more to those looking for more performance than the Accord EX-L offers, and better handling than the V6 EX, due to better weight distribution. Replies to this message: dairyshick (Apr 24, 2008 9:42 am)
#42 of 364 Re: I disagree (dairyshick) [hpmctorque] by dairyshick Apr 24, 2008 (9:42 am)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 24, 2008 5:26 am) That's definitely true and the TSX lost out in that same exact battle when i was deciding on what to get. However, now that the Accord has been inflated to full-size sedan dimensions, it has sort of separated itself from being as directly competitive with the TSX. The TSX also gives you more luxury features (memory, nicer stereo, reverse down-looking side mirrors, nicer interior...). The problem is, that's compared to a much more powerful V6 Accord that costs ~$2K less...it's an even bigger gap when you look at the 4-cyl Accord, so I'm sure it's still going to hurt the TSX. That argument can be made for any luxury brand, though. There are always going to be much cheaper, closely comparable non-luxury brands on the market, but being able to be seen in an expensive car is what sells those cars to lots of people. A much more drastic, but applicable comparison is the upcoming Genesis. A loaded Genesis will be 10's of thousands less than the bmw, mercedes, lexus and audi that it compares with, but there are people that will easily spend that extra money a) because they can and b) because that would never want to be seen in a Hyundai. The same can be said for tons of other comparisons.   Anyway, point well taken! If I was buying now and had to choose between the two, though, my personal decision would be the new TSX over the new Accord because I think the new Accord is just flat out ugly and too big. Many others will think otherwise and choose the Accord over the TSX.
#43 of 364 Diesel TSX available as 2010 model by repoman1 Apr 24, 2008 (12:29 pm)
Talked to a dealer today. He said the 2009 TSX has just arrived - and ready to test drive. Also said that Honda has told them diesel and 6 cylinder will be available one year from now - on the 2010 TSX.
#44 of 364 Re: I disagree (dairyshick) by hpmctorque Apr 24, 2008 (5:35 pm)
Well, I also agree with your points, with caveats. The '08 Accord has grown too large for my needs and preference too, even though it's not much bigger than the '03-'07 generation. Just because the new Accord is labeled "full size" doesn't mean that it's grown all that much. The previous generation was probably at the high end of "intermediate or mid size" while the '08 is at the small end of full size. In the meantime, the new TSX has also grown, especially in width, so the size differential between the TSX and Accord remains approximately the same.   Your point that comparisons between near luxury and less prestigious brands aren't exclusive to Acura and Honda makes perfect sense. I'm sure it's something that many shoppers wrestle with. However, Nissan/Infiniti deflated the need for such comparisons by converting the entire Infiniti brand to rear wheel drive. I think this, or the Toyota/Lexus model, is the example that Acura should follow. With the exception of the Camry based ES, Lexus also differentiated its Lexus luxury division from its mainstream Toyota brand. Acura could leave the TSX as its only front wheel drive model. Replies to this message: biker4 (Apr 25, 2008 2:03 am)
#45 of 364 don't forget by nippononly Apr 24, 2008 (7:23 pm)
all the most successful luxury brands make their most car sales from their smallest models, ALL of which are smaller than TSX (325i, IS, C-class, etc). Acura could sell a smaller more nimble model. I think the main problem with the RSX (in Honda's mind) was that it was too cheap to be taken seriously. I was thinking of reintroducing a proper $25-27K model below the TL.   As for the TSX itself, I actually almost bought this car back in 2004 for $26K, and in 2004, for $26K, the TSX was a competitive car. In 2008, at $29K and with the same powertrain, it is falling behind, that's all I'm saying.   The 2010 diesel will boost sales though, I have no doubt. And I bet that when the 2010 cars finally get here, that other optional engine will be the RDX turbo, not a 6-cylinder. Any takers?!...
#46 of 364 don't forget (dairyshick) (nippononly) by hpmctorque Apr 24, 2008 (11:54 pm)
If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today (four years later). Therefore, if the '04 TSX was a "competitive car" in '04, one could argue that the '09 TSX remains competitive, especially if, (a) one considers the '09 to be at least a little improved overall compared with the '04, and, (b) the '09 is five models years newer than the '04, which is a positive factor in terms of depreciation. Of course, these considerations have to be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made. While one's conclusion comes down to a value judgement, I think one can argue that the '09 TSX in '08 remains about as good a value as the '04 was in its day. Part of my thinking is that, like the TSX, the competing models haven't made dramatic strides over the past four years either.   Of course, today you could also cross shop a Pontiac G-8 V6 against the TSX, and while the G-8 is even larger than the TSX, and its reliability might not be up to Acura standards, it may be a better near luxury value. Replies to this message: nippononly (Apr 25, 2008 6:54 am)
#47 of 364 Re: I disagree (dairyshick) [hpmctorque] by biker4 Apr 25, 2008 (2:03 am)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 24, 2008 5:35 pm) If the Honda statements about the launch of Acura in Europe are to be believed the entire lineup will go RWD by 2015, The TSX can't stay FWD if Acura plans to sell it in Europe - badge engineering won't work there - they'd need something very different from the EuroAccord. Like Lexus, Acura could leave the TL to compete with the ES while having a compact entry level (future TSX), mid size (future RL) and full size (??? start watching the trademark submissions for names from Honda) and the NSX (to compete with LF-A). Everything besides the TL would be based on some RWD platform.   Hosts, since the 09 TSX is officially out this should be moved from future vehicles to the TSX threads.
#48 of 364 Re: don't forget (dairyshick) (nippononly) [hpmctorque] by nippononly Apr 25, 2008 (6:54 am)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 24, 2008 11:54 pm) "If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today"   Yeah, but that's not the way it works with cars, particularly "all new" models introduced during a recession. Take any model of car and track its base price backwards in time. They don't generally rise at the rate of inflation.   Example: VW Passat turbo (base engine). List in 2002 was $23,375. Base price today for the '08 is $23,990 according to Edmunds.   Example: 2002 Acura TL, list $29,360. The 2008 Acura TL, a car that I think we can all agree was COMPLETELY remade and enormously improved for MY 2004, lists at $33,725, a barely 2% increase per year.   Example: BMW 3-series. In 2002 the base model was the 325i, listing at $32,465. The 2008 base model is the 328i, listing at $32,400. Makes the 328i look like a bargain today, huh?!   My point is, car prices do not rise at the same rate as inflation.   And yes, as you stated, the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made."   It is in this area that I find it coming up short. I have now driven it (I am on my dealer's listserve as I used to own an Acura, so I was invited to come drive it now that dealers have it in stock) and find it to be not notably improved from the '04 I drove before, in terms of driving dynamics and performance. Yes, there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake.
#49 of 364 Re: don't forget (dairyshick) (nippononly) (biker4) by hpmctorque Apr 25, 2008 (7:44 am)
biker4: Interesting information about future Acuras, biker4. I had read something similar to what you wrote recently, but didn't have confidence in my source. Conversion to RWD for most of its models makes perfect sense for Acura, though, if they're serious about competing with the top tier luxury brands in world markets.   If Acura is going to retain one FWD model, shouldn't that be the TSX, rather than the TL? The tradeoffs favoring FWD tend to be greatest in smaller, four cylinder cars than larger sixes, just as the the greatest relative advantages of RWD are in high torque V8s, V10s, and V12 applications.   nippononly: "...the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325..."   You meant BMW, of course.   "... there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake."   I agree 100%. Telematics generally doesn't excite me much, although I appreciate certain features, such as traction control, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control. These are wonderful features. I can't warm up to features such as lane departure alerts or controls, or automatic parking. Beeps, vibrations and other alerts would be especially annoying to me. I may exclude certain luxury models from consideration in the future, because they tend to be crammed with telematic features that have a negative value for me. Replies to this message: biker4 (Apr 27, 2008 11:05 am)
#50 of 364 My observation by goose Apr 26, 2008 (8:29 am)
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