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'09 Acura TSX

53 messages,  Last post on May 03, 2008 at 2:27 AM

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#34 of 53 Re: High End Future (nippononly)(biker4) [nippononly] by biker4 Apr 20, 2008 (10:30 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Apr 18, 2008 6:21 pm) I guess you'd say the same thing about the G35. You fault Honda for only tweaking a design that has worked? Honda has always been about making things just bland enough to sell. What did you expect some Bangalized design that would turn off half the potential buyers? Feature wise it has all the same ones the rest of the cars in its category have save the platform - which few people care about. I didn't know a certain thing made a car worth $30K - what would that be? By this logic the TL shouldn't be a 30K car either cause it's just an Acurafied USDM Accord. Or an A4 is not a 30K car cause it's just Audified VW based on a FWD platform.
#35 of 53 Re: High End Future ( (nippononly)(biker4) by hpmctorque Apr 20, 2008 (2:01 pm)
"with the weakness of this update, it seems unlikely that sales will rise much, if at all this year."   If your prediction proves to be correct, nippononly, it'll be interesting to see what Acura does to reverse the sales decline for the remainder of this generation TSX. Any guesses, beyond the addition of the diesel option next year? Replies to this message: nippononly (Apr 20, 2008 11:54 pm)
#36 of 53 Re: High End Future ( (nippononly)(biker4) [hpmctorque] by nippononly Apr 20, 2008 (11:54 pm)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 20, 2008 2:01 pm) Oh, I'm sure they are planning just what you mentioned - plugging in the RDX turbo and offering a diesel too. I think they are hoping they can coast to a sales increase this year just by saying it is all-new, but my dealer still has leftover '07s and a PILE of '08s he can't sell. Selling the '09 while holding the line on price is going to be impossible.   So Honda is going to need to come in with those other engines much more quickly than they expected to. Right now, the stand-out weakness of the '09 TSX is its engine. After that comes its heavy frontward weight bias caused by its wrong-wheel-drive design, and its overall heavyish weight. It's also in an awkward part of the spectrum to be in right now: under $30K, near-lux. The folks with the big money don't care about gas prices, etc, and will go on buying their $40K BMWs but the ones in this price range are downsizing, downpricing, and seeking better fuel economy.   If they had gone a different direction with the new TSX and let TL do the job of their midsize model, they would have had a shot at more sales, I think. Of all the luxury and near-lux brands, Acura's smallest sedan is the largest and least powerful, not usually a good combination (the exception is Volvo, with the base S40, but that is also a much cheaper car - compare the S60 to get a same-priced car, and now you have a turbo engine with more power and much more torque than TSX, available over a huge range of rpm due to the nature of the turbo)
#37 of 53 Re: High End Future ( (nippononly)(biker4) by hpmctorque Apr 23, 2008 (5:33 am)
Maybe the ho hum 2.4 engine in the '09 is just a head fake, and the new diesel will be the engine that propels (sorry, bad pun) and sustains TSX sales for '10 and '11, especially if that engine is exclusive to the TSX. Under this marketing scenario, the "all new" will make sales respectable for the '09 model year, and the (new and exciting) diesel will keep sales perking in '10 and '11. The advertising tag line could be something that conveys the notion of "green luxury", or "green driving excitement." Then, for '12, the last year of this generation, Acura could offer some hot leasing or financing deals, and accept a drop in sales, in anticipation of the next generation TSX. Whaddayathink? Replies to this message: nippononly (Apr 23, 2008 9:42 am)
#38 of 53 Re: High End Future ( (nippononly)(biker4) [hpmctorque] by nippononly Apr 23, 2008 (9:42 am)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 23, 2008 5:33 am) I think that it could work if TSX were the only sedan Acura sold.   Long-term, Acura needs to be looking at their sedan lineup and seeking more differentiation. They've got 3 models of very similar size, none of which is a winner at the track when run against other models of similar price.   They could just drop the RL the way Infiniti seems to have finally sealed the deal on the Q45. It could be replaced with something more sexy, perhaps a sport coupe or roadster for folks who don't have the $100 grand it is going to cost to buy the new NSX.   Then they could take the TL somewhat upmarket, leaving the TSX to cover the early $30Ks, and in that case it is going to need a WAY more compelling powertrain and performance specs.   And if they did all that, I would still be longing for the days when Acura sold a small, nimble car with genuinely sporty handling and road feel and decent speed. Maybe they could introduce something new for the $25-30K bracket the way every other manufacturer has.
#39 of 53 Re: High End Future ( (nippononly) by hpmctorque Apr 23, 2008 (6:51 pm)
You mentioned more differentiation, nippononly. Well, just this week I read that plans call for Acura to be much more differentiated from Honda than it currently is. For example, the next generation TSX supposedly will not be slightly tarted up European Accord. Like you, though, I'd like to see a new version of the Integra/RSX, or a Acura version of the prelude. I especially liked the second generation Prelude. It was nicely styled, and had the driving attributes you described.
#40 of 53 I disagree... by dairyshick Apr 24, 2008 (5:20 am)
I'm not a huge fan of the '09 TSX exterior styling at this point, but I don't necessarily disagree with Acura's choice in keeping with the 4-cyl. I have driven the 06 TSX in both manual and automatic...the automatic isn't overly exciting but definitely sufficient, and the manual was a fun car to drive and had plenty of power for everyday use. Despite what many people on this forum seem to think, not everyone who buys a car has the intention of street racing or knowing they're able to beat every car they're next to at a traffic light. This car may not be the quickest in its class, but it definitely holds its own pretty well against the competitions' base engines (IS250, A4 2.0T, C300). Obviously the optional engines in the competition will destroy a TSX, but at a significantly higher price.   For the features you get in this car, it's a pretty sweet deal for the price. Plus, people buying cars in this segment aren't usually the richy rich people that can afford whatever they want. It actually seems that most people I know of driving entry-level luxury sedans can't even afford them in the first place, but feel they need that luxury status...but I digress. For ~$33K, this car gives you tons of features that you need to pay around $40K for with the competition - navigation, rear view camera, memory seats, bluetooth, sat radio, Xenon headlights, 17" wheels, sunroof, leather, nice stereo, homelink...etc. Go ahead and price out a 328i, IS250, A4 2.0T or C300 with the major options of the TSX, and you can't get close in price. Plus, reliability for Acura is ahead of all of the competition.   I just thought this car deserved a different perspective. I would have bought a current generation TSX in a second but went with an Accord because I wanted a slightly bigger car with more room. Regardless, I still think the TSX (current and new) is one of the best deals on the upscale market for getting tons of features and a decent engine at a terrific price.   As far as a cheaper Acura than the TSX goes, I don't see Honda moving back in that direction, especially since they just moved away from that direction by getting rid of the RSX. I think they count on the civic-si as their budget performance product, which also gives you plenty of features at a good price, and wouldn't want to step on their own toes by making a smaller Acura again.
#41 of 53 I disagree (dairyshick) by hpmctorque Apr 24, 2008 (6:26 am)
I don't disagree with your comments about performance (the TSX offers enough for my needs) and value, if it weren't for the fact that you get an even better value proposition in a Honda. If the RDX turbo engine had come standard in the TSX, at no increase in price, it would have differentiated the Acura sufficiently from the Accord to appeal more to those looking for more performance than the Accord EX-L offers, and better handling than the V6 EX, due to better weight distribution. Replies to this message: dairyshick (Apr 24, 2008 10:42 am)
#42 of 53 Re: I disagree (dairyshick) [hpmctorque] by dairyshick Apr 24, 2008 (10:42 am)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 24, 2008 6:26 am) That's definitely true and the TSX lost out in that same exact battle when i was deciding on what to get. However, now that the Accord has been inflated to full-size sedan dimensions, it has sort of separated itself from being as directly competitive with the TSX. The TSX also gives you more luxury features (memory, nicer stereo, reverse down-looking side mirrors, nicer interior...). The problem is, that's compared to a much more powerful V6 Accord that costs ~$2K less...it's an even bigger gap when you look at the 4-cyl Accord, so I'm sure it's still going to hurt the TSX. That argument can be made for any luxury brand, though. There are always going to be much cheaper, closely comparable non-luxury brands on the market, but being able to be seen in an expensive car is what sells those cars to lots of people. A much more drastic, but applicable comparison is the upcoming Genesis. A loaded Genesis will be 10's of thousands less than the bmw, mercedes, lexus and audi that it compares with, but there are people that will easily spend that extra money a) because they can and b) because that would never want to be seen in a Hyundai. The same can be said for tons of other comparisons.   Anyway, point well taken! If I was buying now and had to choose between the two, though, my personal decision would be the new TSX over the new Accord because I think the new Accord is just flat out ugly and too big. Many others will think otherwise and choose the Accord over the TSX.
#43 of 53 Diesel TSX available as 2010 model by repoman1 Apr 24, 2008 (1:29 pm)
Talked to a dealer today. He said the 2009 TSX has just arrived - and ready to test drive. Also said that Honda has told them diesel and 6 cylinder will be available one year from now - on the 2010 TSX.

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