Last post on Dec 02, 2013 at 7:41 PM
You are in the Toyota Highlander
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Toyota Highlander, Toyota Camry, Toyota Sienna, Fuel System, SUV
#9 of 52 The "big sludge"
Apr 23, 2008 (2:00 pm)
Years ago while having my 2000 Sienna oil changed at the dealer (always at ~ 3000 miles) I read an internal memo (I think it was internal - dealers name on top of page - and I'm reading it upside down on his desk - did that to my boss too...) that service counselors strongly urge owners of '99 - '01 Sienna's to have the engine flushed every 30,000 miles regardless of oil change intervals.
I'm not totally sure of the year range but definitely the 2000 Sienna was there.
Of course at the same time I'm reading & they were telling me that there is no sludge problem and blaming it on the owners.
Yeah, they knew - hence, the extended warranty.
I still have the Toyota, it's been a good van. They just got caught with their pants down back then - and yeah, I had the engine flushed.
#10 of 52 sludge
Apr 24, 2008 (5:19 pm)
blue smoke is NOT always a sign of sludge, just that it is burning a bit of oil. Valve stem seals are a very common source of leakage on toyotas, you will notice it more as a puff when you take off from a light. A bit of valve stem seal leakage is of no big concern, many cars have been driven for 100k+ with a bit of leakage. The only concerns would be that the spark plugs may foul more often, and you need to make sure you aren't loosing too much between oil changes. Sometimes moving to a 10w40 can slow it down, it did for me. Some oils have "seal conditioners" I think they are worth a try.
Continuous smoke as you drive is different and probably more serious, but again, not necessarily a sign of sludging.
Originally this engine was scheduled for much longer oil change intervals (10k, iirc). After the sludging issue came to light, the interval was changed to 7500. Regardless, most of the documented cases I have heard of (from friends at dealers) involve much, much longer oil change intervals, some up to 20k! No wonder they've sludged! Many engines could actually go 20k between changes and NOT sludge, this one was designed to run a bit hotter, so that probably contributed to the problem. The configuration on the Seinna was a bit hotter yet, so it seems most of the sludged engines were in Seinnas.
I'm not saying that all cases are due to neglect (because they're not!), but the data I've seen says they are extremely rare. In any case, Toyota extended the warranty to 100k for all affected engines, even the 4 cylinder. Mine (v6) already had 150k when the warranty was extended!
My 97 camry (with this engine) now has 220k miles and uses very little oil between 5k oil changes. Our 02 Highlander with the same engine has 90k and, while not subject to the sludgng issue in theory, it still uses no oil between 5k changes.
Neither has ever been flushed, I had never heard of this being suggested. It certainly can't hurt, altho I don't think it is a cure-all as sludge tends to collect in places that a flush won't purge. Regular oil AND FILTER changes with quality oil will always be the best preventative in any case.
checking under the oil fill cap is NOT a good way to determine sludge. this engine (and many Toyota engines) have a 'splash guard" right under the cap. It is a rough finish metal part, and just looking at it will convince you that you DO have sludge on a brand new engine! It isn't!
You MUST pull the valve covers (or pan) to verify any sludge. Looking under the cap is not a good way to tell.
#11 of 52 Re: sludge [kenlw]
Apr 24, 2008 (7:24 pm)
I would add one thing to your post...
Driving specifics may have a lot to do with sludge buildup, especially in engines prone to this condition.
Those cars driven minimal distances (short mileage trips with long delays between trips, ie. 4-5 miles to and from work) will have a greater tendency for buildup as compared to longer trips where the engine reaches normal operating temperatures and stays there for a while, such as 25 mile trips or longer...
#12 of 52 Re: sludge [busiris]
May 01, 2008 (11:24 am)
Well, I had Chryslers in the past and they were known for head gasket jobs. They cost less than $500 as I recall. Toyota's cost a heck of a lot more than that and then you have the sludge possibility...nothing like playing Russian Roulette after committing to an already expensive gasket job only to find out you need a new engine. Its BS. FYI, I have a 2002 Camry w/64K miles. I have the oil changed 75% of the time at a dealer, 25% at my tire guy. Early on, at my original dealer, I paid for some sort of oil treatment to 'keep the seals in good shape'. The dealer I got to now says I was wasting my money. Anyway, I change the oil every 3 months no matter what. Guess what. My car is puffing blue smoke at start up. Don't tell me this is normal when I am paying extra for the Toyota...supopsedly a superior vehicle. It IS under the PLATINUM warranty I bought (the one many said I was nuts to purchase!). Now we will see how Toyota tries to wiggle out of a gasket job...at least until the car is out of warranty!
PS: Under warranty an emission chip was also replaced as well as some sort of piece in the door that causes the door lock to intermittantly not work with the keyless entry system. That would have run me $400. The scary thing is that 2 others doors have the same affliction now and then....of course they can not be repaired under warranty unless the dealer witnesses the problem.....$400 a shot!
I was very well satisfied up until the year. If it were a Ford of GM I'd be looking for new one now. I paid extra $$$$$$$$$$$ for the Toyota expecting it to go at least 8 years with no issues. Silly me I guess. I hope my wife's 06 Rav fairs better.
#13 of 52 leakage
May 02, 2008 (4:51 pm)
why 3 months on oil changes? oil changes are usually based on mileage, not time.
again, a slight puff of smoke at start up is, while not perfect, of no real concern in most cases. My 97 v6 camry does this and has for well over 150,000 miles (and as i said previously, has a total of 220,000 miles on it). Even with this stem seal leakage, it isn't enough to have to add any oil between changes (5000 miles).
$500 for a head gasket was a LONG time ago.....
#14 of 52 2002 Highlander oil sludge - free engine rebuild
Feb 08, 2009 (2:57 am)
I have a 2002 Highlander six cylinder with 180,000 miles. I purchased it brand new, and I have always done my own maintenence, including regular oil changes. It had never used any oil between changes. However, starting at about 160,000 miles, I started to have to add a quart every 2000 miles, and then it got worse and I was having to add a quart every 1000 miles. It was not leaking, and there was no smoke, even when first started up. I did research and found about the oil sludge issue. I called my local dealer and they offered to check it out to see if this was the problem. I did not have high hopes, due to my research showing many dealers not wanting to deal with this, or only a small percentage of engines actually having the issue. I was surprised when my dealer said "yes, you have oil sludge" and gave me the good news that Toyota would basically give me a brand new "short block" (block, pistons, rings, etc) and have the top valve end re-worked, and other misc parts, for "free". They also told me that when they do this repair job, they suggest other reapairs at the same time that are not covered under the oild sludge deal such as timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, belts, etc. I also had a differential seal leak which they suggested I fix, and I had a partially stripped oil pan female thread so they suggested a new oil pan. Of course, it did make sense to replace these items while the engine was being rebuilt, even witt the high cost of dealer parts and labor, and I OK'd the additional repairs. My grand total cost including taxes was $790, and $200 of that was for the oil pan... so the cost for a brand new lower short block, and top end re-do, with misc parts that are routinely replaced, was $600. I was never asked to produce any type of receipts or proof that I routinely changed oil, etc. Neeedless to say, I am very happy with this "settlement deal" as I have what amounts to a brand new engine for under $600.
Feb 08, 2009 (10:35 am)
You are one lucky customer. Many people had to fight tooth and nail to get Toyota to do anything, often with less than 80,000 miles for the sludge issue.
#16 of 52 Re: 2002 Highlander oil sludge - free engine rebuild [sitiakab]
Jun 09, 2009 (7:46 pm)
Hi, I have the exact same situation. what dealer did you bring this to? Where? What city? I have the same vehicle with only 53k miles and it has excessive oil loss at highway speeds. Like 3 quarts every 300 miles. Thanks!
#17 of 52 Re: 2002 Highlander oil sludge - free engine rebuild [steves_toyo]
Jul 14, 2009 (8:23 am)
I have a very similiar situation to steve, 53k miles and sometimes I've got white smoke on startup that lasts about 30 seconds. Sometimes there seems to be a large cloud other times not much of a cloud at all. It doesn;t seem to be related to how long it sits but more to the amount driven before parking it. I checked the oil and it was down below the first hole on the dip stick. I called my dealer ( who performs all service on this vehicle ), and their service manager indicated that it wasn't unusual for the valve seals to dry out and allow oil in while it sits. He said he didn't think it was unusual to need to add a quart of oil every 1000 miles. His assessment was - if it's just burning a little oil no worries - just keep adding oil. ( 10w30 or 10w40 he said add either ) . I think that is ridiculous. A) I should have to worry about adding oil to a car with 50k miles on it. B) I look like a dirtbag when I start the thing up and a giant cloud comes out. C) Is this guy giving me the run around? I would think the dealership would be more than happy to do the rebuild if Toyota is paying for it. What should I do next?
#18 of 52 Re: 2002 Highlander oil sludge - free engine rebuild [sitiakab]
Apr 25, 2010 (1:52 am)
I listed a post regarding a dealer that DID provide me with a new short block engine - under name "sitiakab"... for those that asked which dealer, this was done by Lewis Toyota in Topeka KS