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Hybrid Vehicles Electric Vehicles Lithium Ion Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles
34 messages, Last post on Nov 12, 2008 at 5:47 PM
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With the advent of more electric cars coming into fruition in the future and the utilization of more lithium ion batteries, have the auto manufacturers done their homework?? I wonder. Why I ask? Lithium Ion batts have some technical issues and safety concerns. First of all, lithium ions have limitations on how much the batteries can be charged and discharged. Usually it's about 500 cycles. If you charge your vehicle once a day then thats 500days of battery life. Are automobile lithium Ions more robust?? I liked to know, and what is the cycle life of those batteries? Anyone know?? Then there is safety concerns. The battery packs will have to be well protected against electrical overcharging and physical abuse such as in a crash. Depending on the chemistry of the lithium ion batt overcharging may overheat the battery cells and may cause and explosion or severe outgassing. Shorts can cause this too. I believe they can resolve those issues though they need to be thought out thoroughly. With Tesla on the road already, I certainly hope they did right. Comments from anyone.
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More electric vehicle news on the Alternate Route Perfect Storm?
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A very interesting bit of electric vehicle news came up on the Alternate Route this morning... Bond, James Bond |
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Still working out kinks in the Volt like powering the windshield wipers. Talk about biting off more than you can chew. But it makes for a day's blog entry  Beat To The Punch? |
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Replying to: galvang (Jan 14, 2008 10:29 pm) A cycle represents a full charge after a full discharge. If you only discharge the batteries 50% every day then 500 days of recharging would be 250 cycles. We've all heard of the much publicized limitations regarding Li-ion batteries. I've got to believe that the engineers at Mercedes, Honda, GM, et al, have at least as much insight into these matters as the typical poster on Edmunds. Honda will be using Li-ion batteries in its FCX. GM will be using it in the fuel cell Equinox. Mercedes will be fielding it in their S class hybrid next year. I'm not a chemical or material engineer but common sense tells me that these multi-billion dollar companies would not be putting these battery packs in their vehicles if they didn't have a high level of confidence.
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Replying to: tpe (Mar 04, 2008 4:53 pm) Lithium Ion have been around for awhile but for this new type of battery both the auto MFGr and the battery MFGr would have to prove that they are reliable and safe. They look great on paper but the proof is in the real world application in this case autos.
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Replying to: galvang (Mar 20, 2008 3:42 pm) UP TO 1000 cycles. That is best case it sounds like to me. How will they give a 10 year warranty on a battery like that? It is not likely you will totally discharge the battery very often. At least hopefully not as you would be dead in the water. Toyota has overcome some of the problems with deep discharging by only charging to 80% and not allowing the battery to go below 20%. In an EV that would cut your range by 40%.
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Replying to: galvang (Mar 20, 2008 3:42 pm) I think you might have left out a zero and meant 10,000 cycles. I've seen that claim also from Altair Nanotechnologies. 1000 cycles would not represent an improvement over what NiMH batteries are capable of. Also it probably wouldn't be adequate for an EV unless the cost was comparable to lead acid. I believe that GM has set a target of 3,000 cycles out of whoever they choose to supply their battery packs. The problem with Altairnano's batteries is that their energy density isn't really any better than NiMH. Meaning that for a given range the battery pack is not going to weigh any less. However Altairnano's batteries have a much greater power density, which will allow them to be recharged/discharged much faster. My personal opinion is that Altairnano's batteries are perfect for a PHEV application where you are only going for around 40 miles of all electric range. I think that for a pure EV with much over 100 mile range they would end up being too heavy. For instance if you were to use Altairnano's batteries in the Tesla Roadster you would add about 800 lbs to a battery pack that already weighs ~900 lbs.
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Replying to: tpe (Mar 24, 2008 10:33 am) http://www.a123systems.com/#/applications/phev/pchart2/ As for the energy density of the A123 Nano-phosphates, there are just as good or even better than standard Lithium ions. They operate at much higher voltage than NiMH almost 3 times as much with the same capacity. Plus these batteries can be fast charged in a matter of minutes. With the higher energy density and the ability to pull high short term electrical loads like with hybrid, it's perfect for a PHEV or a pure EV. In fact GM has is working with them to develop the batts for their EV the Volt. I like these new batt technology. http://www.a123systems.com/#/applications/phev/
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 22, 2008 5:24 pm) You are right if the discharge is 100% then the range is increased but at the same time reducing the battery's cycle life. And vice versa the opposite occurs. It's a trade off. The physics is there, now if the auto MFGrs can apply this very same technology to large SUVs and increase the mileage significantly, that would be a feat. More than likely it would initially be expensive but as time goes on I'm sure it will be competitive with a gas engine. |
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