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Lithium Ion Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles

34 messages,  Last post on Nov 12, 2008 at 6:47 PM

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Messages Page 4 of 4

#25 of 34 Re: Lithium Ion Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles [galvang] by tranhv68

Apr 19, 2008 (10:12 am)

Replying to: galvang (Apr 14, 2008 11:10 pm)
You're right. If you go to Valence Technology's website, there is an interesting video that shows what happens when regular cobalt oxide lithium ions get damaged. I would venture to guess that a lot of failed or incinerated laptop batteries probably experienced some damage from drops. Can you imagine if George Clooney crashes his Tesla and the whole things blows up with him in it. It's not a question of if but a question of when. I wouldn't buy a tesla if it was $20,000. Below is the link.
 
http://www.valence.com/technology/safety_video.html#

#26 of 34 Re: Lithium Ion Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles [tranhv68] by galvang

Apr 20, 2008 (8:37 pm)

Replying to: tranhv68 (Apr 19, 2008 10:12 am)
Can you imagine if George Clooney crashes his Tesla and the whole things blows up with him in it.
 
Yes, I believe that the Tesla is using standard lithium ions but if you investigate Tesla's battery pack it's been constructed very well with a cooling system and the packaging has been beefed up to withstand crashes. In fact the FEDs conducted crash tests with the Tesla and no problems observed. They approved it.
 
Nevertheless, the fact remains that the those Li-Ions are a ticking time bomb (literally). Additionally, the cycle life will be horrible for that vehicle. The Nano-phosphate Li-ions are the way to go. GM completed a smart move.
 
I hope Clooney doesn't have Tess in the Tesla or he will surely be in the dog house when that beast breaks down.
 
That's the beauty of a serial hybrid configuration. It's not being driven by the engine. The engine just needs to be able to generate power that's equal to your average consumption, not your instantaneous consumption
 
Most drivers will be using the plug-in feature of the vehicle to minimize fuel and maximize their mpg, in my opinion.
 
Regarding the ICE, GM marketing folks will have to educate their customers on the ICE and on the Li-ion batteries. It will seem strange for a few drivers that this engine will not rev up when the accelerator is depressed. There will not be a Tachometer and the ICE tune- ups maybe far and few in between. GM needs to educate the public on the type of Li-ions and their safety. This vehicle will be different on all aspects from the use to the maintinence. If this vehicle is price competitive then GM has a winner on it's hands.

#27 of 34 Update on the Volt by GM [galvang] by galvang

May 14, 2008 (11:04 pm)

Replying to: galvang (Apr 20, 2008 8:37 pm)
Looks like GM is doing well with their proto trails with Volt.
 
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/05/chevy_volt_traveling_public_ro.html#more

#28 of 34 Re: Update on the Volt by GM [galvang] by blace

Jun 02, 2008 (5:03 pm)

Replying to: galvang (May 14, 2008 11:04 pm)
I hope GM can get it together fast enough to make a difference. Having searched the web for ANY car that is electric/gas and has style landed me onto the Volt, only to find out it won't even be available for 2+ years. I'd buy it now, if it came in at less than 30 thou. As far as the batteries are concerned - have you tried sending a bullet through a gas tank? I think if the Volt had an aluminum undercarriage (rust protection, longevity & recyclable), extensive use of plastic/fiberglas or equivalent, like a vet for weight reduction & rust prevention, fiberoptics and electronics that blow you away, I couldn't imagine them keeping up with demand. It's not necessarily all about horsepower or speed anymore, but it is about image! It's a cool looking car that could sit in the driveway an get stares. All electric around town means quiet...stealthy... and passing by all the gas stations means pride! Can't we start a new revolution away from the 900 Hp, 0-60 in 5 sec., 1/4 mile in ?? ?? , blow your doors off, drunken, gas station to gas station stupidity??? Heaven forbid we could be smart, green, and drink something other than beer...
I'd say to GM: take advice from the Bank of Scotland commercial - quit talking and start building - the batteries are not that hard to swap out if something better pops up before the cars go to market.

#29 of 34 Re: Update on the Volt by GM [blace] by gagrice

Jun 02, 2008 (6:08 pm)

Replying to: blace (Jun 02, 2008 5:03 pm)
I would expect closer to $50 thou or a big lease on the batteries. Have you read the above article. There are still challenges to making the car safe to park in you garage.
 
the biggest challenge is to manage the thermal dynamics of the batteries so that the batteries are the same temperature.
 
Welcome to the Forum

#30 of 34 Re: Update on the Volt by GM [blace] by galvang

Jun 02, 2008 (9:06 pm)

Replying to: blace (Jun 02, 2008 5:03 pm)
I hope GM can get it together fast enough to make a difference.
 
This things take a little bit of time. Like the article stated they do have challenges (gagrice) but those challenges can be over come. GM can always accelerate their plans to introduce the vehicle into the market but that will take extra money and manpower in which GM cannot afford. "Uncle sam help me please."
 
Can't we start a new revolution away from the 900 Hp, 0-60 in 5 sec., 1/4 mile in ?? ?? , blow your doors off, drunken, gas station to gas station stupidity???
 
If gas and oil keep going up then I believe there will be a dramatic philosophical change to the auto consumer. Where MPG will be more of a priority than HP when purchasing a car. It's started to happen. Come to think about it, I still pick up "Road and Track" and "Motor Trend" and these magazines are so behind in the times that they still write about these power hog of a vehicles.

#31 of 34 Re: Lithium Ion Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles [gagrice] by stevedebi

Jun 03, 2008 (11:56 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Apr 17, 2008 11:15 pm)
"Most of the failures are a single cell in laptop batteries. "
 
The fewest cells of which I am aware are 6; most laptop LiIon batteries have 9 cells.

#32 of 34 Re: Lithium Ion Battery Packs For Electric Vehicles [stevedebi] by galvang

Jun 04, 2008 (5:04 pm)

Replying to: stevedebi (Jun 03, 2008 11:56 pm)
If one of theose Laptop Lithium Ion battery goes it will cause a chain reaction and other batteries may over heat and fail too.

#33 of 34 Re: Electric news [pf_flyer] by nanookie

Oct 05, 2008 (3:43 am)

Replying to: pf_flyer (Jan 22, 2008 6:52 am)
There are newer technology lithium ion batteries using nano-particle suspensions, composite cathode materials, and various physical and chemical modifications that overcome all of these limitations.
 
     Various manufacturers have invented various alternative configurations, all of which have greatly increased cycle life, charge and discharge rate, and safety. Thermal run-away, copper plating, lithium plating at low temperature, and exposed graphite-oxygen-electrolyte issues have all been resolved in these newer designs.
 
      Production is already ramping up with some of these new technologies but there are many more in the pipeline, so I expect within a few years, the lithium batteries won't resemble what we see today at all, however, even now there are companies producing lithium batteries with much longer cycle life, operating parameters, and without the thermal-runaway or fire hazards of older technologies.

#34 of 34 Battery news by pf_flyer HOST

Nov 12, 2008 (6:47 pm)

From laptops to cars, advanced batteries have become a major factor in innovation. And if Panasonic Corp.'s possible takeover of Sanyo Electric Co. goes through, the merged company could become a dominant force in the fast-growing business.
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122589242452601431.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

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