Last post on Jan 25, 2008 at 6:44 PM
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Classic Cars, Coupe, Convertible
#55 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [u [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 07, 2008 (9:55 am)
So, being the last year makes it more valuable? Makes no sense.
In this case, though, we're dealing with the chronic GM "get it right, then kill it" syndrome, where the vehicle is steadily improved during the model run so the last one is the most desirable of all: Impala SS, V6 Fiero, Grand National, etc.
#56 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Jan 07, 2008 (10:18 am)
Yeah but the last Fiero and last GNX and the last Cadillac Allante were much improved models. The Impala SS was just the same old car with a few geegaws. Big diff.
#57 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b
Jan 07, 2008 (11:57 am)
The Fiero and Allante were also cars that were sub-par enough to begin with that by the time GM had the bugs worked out of them, the damage to their reputation had already been done. And they were also never really leaders in their class. Caddy tried to go after the 560SL with the Allante, and were pretty much ridiculed for it, even once it got the Northstar. And I don't think the Fiero ever got into the same league as stuff like the MR2.
But the Impala SS and Grand National were pretty much cars in the top of their league and desireable from their get-go. They were decent cars to begin with, and only got better. BTW, the GNX was a one-year only model that they only made 546 copies of, with a 276 hp version of the 3.8 turbo. When it comes to regular Grand Nationals, would the 1987 be worth more than, say, a 1984? IIRC, it was 1985 that they really got a boost in power, and 1986-87 that they started scaring Corvettes. The 1985 and earlier models are much more rare, even when they were new. They only built a few thousand per year, but I think jumped to around 10-15K for 1986 and around 24K for 1987. I think most Grand Nationals have been modified by now, anyway, regardless of model year, so that may close the gap with value.
#58 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Jan 07, 2008 (12:05 pm)
I think what's possibly misleading you is that the cars you mention are priced like USED cars, not collectibles. Used cars are worth more the newer they are. These cars are too new to behave like collectibles IMO. You see the same in C4 Vettes, NSXs, C5s, Porsche 911s etc. Naturally with a used car the last year is always the most valuable, whereas with a collectible the older the car the more it tends to be worth.
Not always, but it's good to remember that cars need a good 25-30 years to start acting like true collectibles. It's possible the Impala SS will slump in value. It seems like the 94s and 05s are slipping already.
My "theory" is that first of all a car has to depreciate fully as a used car. That is, it has to hit a bottom price and stay there. Then, once its collectible status is secured, it starts to climb back up.
So time will tell if the Impala SS will slide down like a used car, stay stagnant (like say the "minor" collectibles like Avanti or Delorean) or start to climb like the potentially strong collectibles.
#60 of 74 Re: 1966 Ford Fairlane GTA convertible [parm]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Jan 08, 2008 (9:20 am)
Well one sale does not a market make; besides, without seeing the car, maybe the price was correct. I was working on the assumption of a #3 car. If it were a little nicer than that, then $25,000 is an okay price. In the photos, it looks nicer that it was originally presented to us for evaluation. I didn't know it had brand new total interior and rebuilt suspension. This could be a high #3 car.
The BIG question always is: well, can you turn around tomorrow and sell it AGAIN for that price?
How do you know it sold at $25,000?
#61 of 74 Re: 1966 Ford Fairlane GTA convertible [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 08, 2008 (2:55 pm)
Well first off, let me say that you were closer than me. LOL! My $18K estimate was probably more wishful thinking than anything else, because this car looked pretty decent to me.
I exchanged a few emails with the seller and he told me the car just recently sold for $25,000. Admittedly, he could be fibbing. However, based on his emails, he seems like an honest guy. So, I can't technically document the sale price any further than that. But, given that this car did not sit forever on the market, I'm inclined to believe the car sold for $25,000.
#62 of 74 Here's a 4-dr '64 Cadillac for your review
Jan 08, 2008 (3:22 pm)
OK, I know this discussion was originally about coupes vs. convertibles. BUT, at one point, the discussion went in the direction of the aesthetics of a 4-door. So, here's what appears to be a pretty nice '64 Fleetwood. Can't say I'm crazy about the white exterior, but I love the navy blue interior which is a color you don't see that often in these cars. The interior is usually black, white &/or not in very good condition. If I were master of the universe, I'd buy this car and paint it a nice navy blue. Now, THAT would be an elegant car.
Wonder what this one will go for? Right now, it's sitting at $8,000 with 26 bids (a surprisingly high number, I think). The ad says the seller has invested $20K over the last two years. I would think that $12,000 to $15,000 would be all the money for this one. But, lately I've been banished to the corner wearing my dunce cap when it comes to estimating a sale price.
It strikes odd that this car is located in Scottsdale, AZ with an Ebay auction date that ends on the Saturday of Barrett-Jackson. If this car is as good as the ad states, I would think the seller would have wanted to expose it multiple millionares by letting it go across the auction at B-J or any one of the 2-3 other January auctions in Arizona. Hmmmmmmmmm. Makes me think this car isn't really for sale - except for an outrageously high (ie., above-market) price - which the seller can't control at a no reserve auction.
Nice car though.
#63 of 74 Re: Here's a 4-dr '64 Cadillac for your review [parm]
Jan 08, 2008 (3:36 pm)
Those Fleetwoods were beautiful cars...the unique roofline, and especially for me, the absence of moldings right down the middle of the body sides like lesser Cadillacs, and the addition of wide rocker moldings. Always liked the small "Fleetwood" lettering low on the front fenders, too. Funny, back then the Eldorado was pretty much the Fleetwood, but in a convertible body style. Too bad they didn't make a Fleetwood Coupe through most of the '60's. They did this up until '60 (the Seville), and from '80 or '81 and later though.
#64 of 74 Re: Here's a 4-dr '64 Cadillac for your review [parm]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Jan 08, 2008 (5:47 pm)
He could be just testing the market by putting a ridiculous reserve on the car but I don't think this is anything any BJ "millionaire" would care about. This kind of car does better away from places like BJ. It just won't get any attention there and then the seller is out the $$$ entrance fees, or if he does sell, he gets nicked $1,000 bucks or so.
A lot of one's success in BJ depends on the day and time you are willing to pay for. If you get a lousy time, your car won't get any good bids anyway.
I TOLD YOU these cars are bringing close to coupe money. It's probably worth $8,500 to 10,000. It should bring about 1K more than a Sedan DV. If it were extra sharp I could see $12K. Higher than that, we are talking show quality merchandise.