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Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car?

74 messages,  Last post on Jan 25, 2008 at 7:44 PM

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What is this discussion about? Classic Cars, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 5 of 8

#35 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 27, 2007 (4:23 pm)

Replying to: bumpy (Dec 27, 2007 2:22 pm)
I think one would have to live with the coupe vs. the sedan for a few days before deciding. The coupe has a back seat that you have to crawl into, after doing the limbo under the roof, and yet has a trunk that could easily fit 4 dead bodies without anyone having to tuck in. It's an attractive car but very irrational "in the flesh", IMO.
 
Besides no one will ride with you in the back seat of a coupe. It's like you are trapped in a cave back there. So I'd go for the car with room for the family and you can still fit 3 dead bodies in the back, should the in-laws give you any trouble.

#36 of 74 Coupe vs Convertible for the Collector by euphonium

Dec 27, 2007 (4:33 pm)

When in USARPAC, I sold other servicemen's cars after they left the Rock which enabled them to drive their car until they left. I sold softops, hardtops, sedans, & even an old Packard. When driving the MGA around with a "For Sale" sign, it was pure pleasure and it brought the best price. An Admiral bought a Chev Bel Air convertible for his wife & it was difficult to get past the SP's at the gate with that story.
 
It seemed that the locals put a higher value on cars that came from the mainland so if the car had a heater, it was from the mainland and worth more.
 
In later years I purchased a '63 Fiat Spyder as a second car, but driven to work.
I fought invading water & even bought a used factory hardtop, but that didn't help.
It was replaced by a '66 Mustang GT Coupe & it has been dry ever since.
 
When showing the Mustang, the other participants appreciate the car, but when a convertible in equal condition is in the show, it is the convertible that gets the admiration of the other entries.
 
Because the Coupe is now a garage queen trophy car that hasn't been wet since 1995 - a convertible 66 Stang would be desired if the coupe were to be replaced.
 
Condition, condition, condition is most important - especially at the shows.

#37 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by parm

Dec 27, 2007 (7:11 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 27, 2007 4:23 pm)
Right now, I drive a 2000 Eldorado which is a 2-door coupe. The whole rear seat entry/exit thing isn't an issue because I don't ride back there. And, rarely, do I have the need to carry anyone back there who's not a teenager (ie., my kids) on a daily basis. So, having only two doors wouldn't be much of an adjustment for me. However, a '64 Cadillac would be a toy, naturally. And, thus, would be used as such. Consequently, I would envision there might be a few more opportunities to haul more than one other adult from time to time which would make the 4-door more convenient from that standpoint.
 
On the other hand, the main reason for owning one of these cars is for its "style" - which is obviously in the eye of the beholder. And, to "this" beholder, the coupe wins the battle on style. And, while I doubt Steve McQueen would've wanted to have been buried in one, the Coupe Deville just seems more "cool" than the Sedan Deville. Furthermore, since a '64 Coupe Deville wouldn't be my daily driver, the convenience factor of having four doors might be moot. Hard to tell. Perhaps with a collector car, I'd want 4-doors a greater percentage every time I turned the key. But, I don't think my requirement to haul around more than other person at a time would increase dramatically with a collector car. Truth be known, I would suspect I'd be flying solo a great deal of the time anyway (the whole "collector car" euphoria only goes so far with my soon-to-be wife - LOL!) which tends to sway the decision toward a coupe.
 
I will say this, once you get into the back seat of a Coupe Deville (albeit, with some coaxing), you sure could do a lot worse in terms of comfort. While the lack of rear doors might technically qualify as being in a cave, it's a pretty nice cave - leather upholstery and all - and pretty roomy, especially compared to a Chevelle, Camaro, Mustang or any other collector car with a bit more "muscle", so to speak.

#38 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by andre1969

Dec 29, 2007 (6:59 pm)

Replying to: parm (Dec 27, 2007 7:11 pm)
Consequently, I would envision there might be a few more opportunities to haul more than one other adult from time to time which would make the 4-door more convenient from that standpoint.
 
My '57 DeSoto and '67 Catalina are both 2-doors, and there have been plenty of times when I've had people pile in the back seat, and nobody's ever complained about the room. Well, except for their hair, in the Catalina, when I'd put the top down. Despite being 2-doors, they're probably still bigger in the back seat than most modern 4-door cars. I'm sure a '63-64 Coupe DeVille would be similar.
 
For the most part, I don't think 2-door cars started being a pain to get into the back until the 1970's designs came out. And smaller cars are going to be more difficult. My '68 and '69 Dart hardtops weren't really that hard to get into the back seat of, but my '76 LeMans is horrible. Part of the problem is that the LeMans has a B-pillar that slants forward, making entry/exit more difficult. And once they made the sides of cars start curving in more, I think that made it more difficult.
 
I saw a '63-64 Caddy last nite, on tv. One of my friends gave me the first season of "CHiPs" on DVD, and there was one in the pilot episode, a nice looking 6-window 4-door hardtop. I'm not gonna say what happened to it though, because it's too awful to repeat here.

#39 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by parm

Dec 29, 2007 (7:07 pm)

Replying to: parm (Dec 27, 2007 7:11 pm)
To add one picky point, the issue of getting in and out of the back seat of a '64 Coupe Deville would be a lot easier (compared to a more modern car) given this car's lack of ceiling/pillar mounted seat belts. Plus, there's no inconveniently placed lever to manipulate to unlock the seat. Just a matter of flipping the front seat forward and stepping into a pretty big opening. Go to any cruise-in or car show and I'll bet the ratio of 2-door coupes to 4-door sedans is easily a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio - which should provide some indication as to the appeal of coupes over sedans which, in turn, would contribute/translate to a somewhat greater value compared to a sedan.
 
Anyone care to disagree?

#40 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 30, 2007 (6:23 pm)

Replying to: parm (Dec 29, 2007 7:07 pm)
Yeah disagree--not on your arguments about the coupe rear seat room (after all, it's no big deal) but about value. The coupe and 4DHT values are very very close on Cadillacs. Neither one is a "hot" seller. The convertibles grab all the glory in Cadillac, the coupes and 4DHTs are also-rans for some reason....unlike say a Chevy or Pontiac, where the two doors outpace the 4DHTs by a pretty good margin.
 
But the Buicks also have a close ratio between 2DHT and 4DHT.
 
I think the less "performance" oriented a car is, and the larger it is, the more the values of coupes and 4DHTs merge.
 
Right now, they look to be within 10% of each other---that's a lot closer than one might have thought. I was a bit surprised myself.

#41 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by andre1969

Dec 31, 2007 (6:35 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 30, 2007 6:23 pm)
Right now, they look to be within 10% of each other---that's a lot closer than one might have thought. I was a bit surprised myself.
 
Hmmm, that is surprising. As a general rule of thumb, I used to figure a 2-door hardtop was worth about twice as much as an equivalent 4-door pillared sedan, and then a convertible would be worth about twice as much as the 2-door hardtop (or 4x the 4-door pillared sedan) For models like 2-door sedans and 4-door hardtops, I figured they were usually worth more than a 4-door pillared sedan, but still nowhere near 2-door hardtop territory.
 
But nowadays, if I want to know the value of something, I'll just ask Shifty!

#42 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [b by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 31, 2007 (9:13 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Dec 31, 2007 6:35 am)
Formulas usually crumble into dust with the collector market today, again because the collectors are so much more savvy, and they know a lot and vote for their high level of discrimination with their checkbooks. It's not about the "merit" of the car, it's about what people want and don't want. Why is a '96 Impala SS worth 30% more than a '95? Supply and demand. It's basically the same car both years with a few gizmos added.

#43 of 74 Price differential between coupes and convertibles by parm

Jan 03, 2008 (6:40 pm)

"Right now, they look to be within 10% of each other---that's a lot closer than one might have thought. I was a bit surprised myself".
 
10%? Are you sure? In considering a '64 Coupe Deville that's for sale, the seller cited the NADA value guide. I don't have the figures right here in front of me, but NADA's values show a difference that's waaaaaaaaaaaaay more than 10%. For a Deville in average condition, I think they show the coupe at around $8,500 and the convertible around $11,500. I know these numbers aren't spot on, but they're pretty close. That's considerably more than 10%. I'd be curious what the figures are in the CPI guide too.
 
Shifty, not that I'm questioning you, but . . . . . . . where is your support for the 10% price differential?

#44 of 74 Re: Price differential between coupes and convertibles [parm] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Jan 03, 2008 (8:09 pm)

Replying to: parm (Jan 03, 2008 6:40 pm)
Comparables mostly.
 
Just remember this piece of wisdom:
 
Price Guides only put you in the right "decade". That's as close as they get.
 
Okay, CPI has a Sedan Deville in "good" condition at $7500 and a coupe de ville at $10,000. So that's......more like 25% in the good category but about 10% in the fair category.
 
The better the car gets the wider the margin, it looks like. I'd go along with that.
 
I'm so used to people calling me up and saying that the car is 'excellent" and then I go look at it, and it's barely a #3 or a low #4.
 
So okay, let's say for nice stuff that a Coupe DV is outpricing a SdV by 25% then.
 
Still not a lot.
 
Hemmings Muscle Car Magazine has an interesting article in the Jan issue about this (last page), how 4-door prices are going up a lot.

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