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Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car?

74 messages,  Last post on Jan 25, 2008 at 7:44 PM

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What is this discussion about? Classic Cars, Coupe, Convertible

Messages Page 4 of 8

#25 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 26, 2007 (8:54 pm)

Replying to: parm (Dec 26, 2007 8:48 pm)
I did some research on your question and I would think $8,500 could buy you a killer '64 SdV.
 
I hear what you're saying about the "stodgy" image, but really, you think the coupe makes you a 25 year old playboy?
 
I always see these big coupes as sporting steer horns for some reason

#26 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by andre1969

Dec 27, 2007 (6:58 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 26, 2007 4:21 pm)
I'd encourage you to look for a Sedan de Ville in this model, because it is such a large car. A gigantic 2-dr coupe is pretty useless, but in a 4-door hardtop you can comfortably carry lots of people with you. Also the 4-door hardtop deVilles are just as handsome as the two-doors, if not in fact better looking.
 
About the only thing I'd argue with a 2-door versus a 4-door, is that I find the 2-doors easier to get into. While the doors are longer, which is going to cause a problem in tight spaces, the doors on cars from that era really aren't THAT long. That trend really didn't catch on until the 1970's. 4-door cars can be kind of hard to get into if you're tall and have the seat all the way back. Usually putting the seat all the way back puts it between the B-pillars. That always gave me a problem with visibility to the side, but with a 4-door hardtop that would be negated.
 
Most 2-doors from that era still had the seatbacks that were hinged at an angle, which helped entry/exit to the back seat immensely...just as long as you didn't try to push both seatbacks forward at the same time!
 
I think with some of the immensely huge cars, the 4-door hardtops do look better than the 2-doors, but I don't think that '63-64 style is one of them. I'd say they're about equal in looks, although I do like the way the A-pillar seems to curve more smoothly into the top of the roof on the 4-door, whereas it seems more angular on the 2-door. Both good looking cars in my opinion, and I'd be proud to own either one.
 
With some of the mammoth 70's cars, I think the 4-door hardtops look better, but that's mainly because in that era, they were trying to make just about every coupe out there look like a personal luxury coupe, with the massive C-pillar, small rear window, and rear roll-down side windows that were reduced to mere slits, or replaced by stationary opera windows.
 
On the subject of 60's Caddies, what would a decent '61-62 4-door hardtop go for these days? I always liked those. Isn't the 4-window style supposed to be worth more than the 6-window? Personally, I don't have a preference.

#27 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 27, 2007 (8:51 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Dec 27, 2007 6:58 am)
Believe me Andre, you can WALK into a Sedan de Ville.
 
The 61s-62s seem to be only about $1,000 more or so (10%?) more than a '64. A coupe is more valuable but not by a lot. In most Cadillacs, the difference between 2DHT and 4DHT is not nearly as great as it is with the lower line GM cars. I think this is because a huge 2 DR coupe doesn't look right to the modern eye anymore.
 
As evidence of my theory, you will note that large coupes such as the BMW 8 series was a flop and that the large Mercedes coupes never sold very well either.
 
It's also ironic that the only large 80s--90s Chevrolet sedan worth more than used car money these days is the Impala SS from the mid 90s, another 4 door.
 
Also the Jaguar XJ6C was a failure and the XJS is dirt cheap in today's market.
 
So I think my theory of the "handsome 4 door", while EXCEPTIONALLY RARE, has some credence.
 
I predict (place turban on head) that in a short time the Cadillac Sedan de Ville of the 60s and 70s will exceed the coupe equivalent in value, based on modern tastes.

#28 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by andre1969

Dec 27, 2007 (9:40 am)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 27, 2007 8:51 am)
I predict (place turban on head) that in a short time the Cadillac Sedan de Ville of the 60s and 70s will exceed the coupe equivalent in value, based on modern tastes.
 
Actually, I could see that. Seems like as the 60's wore on, the big 4-door hardtops got better looking compared to the 2-door hardtops. I'd say by 1969-70, the Sedan DeVille was a better looking car than the Coupe DeVille. I still think the coupe is good looking, but just don't care for the styling around the rear quarter window and C-pillar area
, as shown on this 1970 Coupe DeVille
 
Another thing I really hated, once they started going to fixed windows on coupes, how the rear side windows wouldn't always line up with the windows in the doors. Kinda like in this Buick Electra ad. It has a clumsy look to me, around the B-pillar area, almost as if one committee designed the front part, one designed the back part, but they didn't agree on how to make them line up! In this case, I think the 4-door hardtop, which is in the background, is a much better looking car.
 
Now when they were still making C-body hardtop coupes, I thought it was still an attractive style. But I think I still prefer the 4-door hardtop, even here. Here's a '73 Electra 2-door hardtop:

#29 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 27, 2007 (9:53 am)

Replying to: andre1969 (Dec 27, 2007 9:40 am)
I agree. The rear roofline and monstrous trunk lids on the coupes look very awkward. They're starting to look like pickup trucks.

#30 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by parm

Dec 27, 2007 (12:17 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 27, 2007 8:51 am)
Coupe Deville vs. a Sedan Deville. Which is the better way to go? Based on our discussion here, the whole issue is about as clear as mud to me now. LOL! Value-wise, it sounds like they're worth about same. Personally, I don't ever see the value of a Sedan Deville being significantly more than the Coupe. So, I guess it gets down to: 1) personal preference; 2) condition/quality of the car in question, and; 3) price. I think a very nice Coupe would still be better than a rather "needy" Sedan. I will say that with the 4-window Sedan, once you have all of the windows down, it'd be darn near like driving a convertible in terms of the amount of open air space - of course, a similar argument can be made with the Coupe since its windows are pretty big. And, with the Sedan, if you needed more interior room, you wouldn't need to see a car dealer, you'd need to see a real estate agent. So, on a $/sqft basis, perhaps the Sedan is the way to go?
 
The 4-window Sedan doesn't have a fixed B-pillar so I don't think there would be a blind spot even with the driver's seat all the way back. Getting into the back seat of a Sedan would be easier than a Coupe - unless the average age of the rear seat passengers is under 25, at which point it's a toss-up.
 
While I admit the Coupe wouldn't win me many (any?) "come hither" smiles from a co-ed, a 4-door just seems like I should be driving in a funeral procession.

#31 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Dec 27, 2007 (12:24 pm)

Replying to: parm (Dec 27, 2007 12:17 pm)
Well just a suggestion. There's no clear winner here. I think color would be important. For a coupe I'd pick a flashier color and for a 4 door I think black would look great if the paint was good. I like the coupes in two-tone paint myself and I don't like gold cadillacs. I think they made a nice blue metallic and with a white type that would be nice.
 
The 4 doors look good in black IMO and darker non-metallics.

#32 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by andre1969

Dec 27, 2007 (12:37 pm)

Replying to: parm (Dec 27, 2007 12:17 pm)
I'd say in the long run, just go with whatever one makes YOU, the buyer, happy. You're the one who has to live with it, so get something that you're going to enjoy.
 
I imagine come resale time, if you get bored with it, the coupe would be easier to sell than the sedan.
 
The sedan will be cheaper to buy, and possibly cheaper to insure since one component of your insurance will be agreed-upon value. However, it's going to be just as expensive to drive, maintain, repair, and might actually be harder to find some of the more unique replacement parts that differ between a 2- and 4-door. Since 2-doors are more popular, it tends to be easier to track down those types of parts, and it's more likely that aftermarket suppliers might make repro stuff, etc.

#33 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f by parm

Dec 27, 2007 (1:00 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 27, 2007 12:24 pm)
You don't like gold Cadillacs? Oh noooooooooooo! LOL! Actually, I think that color (Sierra Gold in '64) looks pretty sharp. But, hey, that's me. A black 4-door Sedan would definitely fit right in at a funeral parlor. Actually, the guy selling the '64 Coupe Deville (in Sierra Gold btw) also has a 1966 Sixty-Special 4-door sedan that he'd like to sell too. I know less about this car, but I've seen photos. Ironically, it's black with black leather interior. And, he's done a fair amount of work to it. Looks pretty decent - even the wood door panels (similar to the Eldorado of that year). He's asking $11.500. The back seat has the flip-down foot rests and the pull-down tabletops on the back of the front seat.
 
With regard to production, in 1964 Cadillac produced about the number of hardtop Coupes (38,195) as they did 4-window Sedans (30,579). For the record, they also made 15,146 six-window Sedan Devilles. And, in case you're keeping score at home, they made 17,900 convertibles. All of these figures are per the book "Cadillacs of the Sixties" by Roy Schneider.

#34 of 74 Re: Convertible vs. Hardtop Coupe - which is better for a collector car? [f [Mr_Shiftright] by bumpy

Dec 27, 2007 (2:22 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 26, 2007 4:21 pm)
I'm going to argue for the coupe. The doors and windows on the sedan look like the right size for a '64 Chevelle or something, nowhere near big enough for a pontoon barge Caddy. The longer coupe doors and windows are closer to being in good proportion to the long, fat front and rear fenders.

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