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#28 of 36 SOLVED!!! by colt1911

Aug 27, 2009 (7:51 pm)

Wow what a thread !!! This thread helped me a little in my research, so now I'm BACK, to give back!! Let me hit a few points first.
 
/quote geoman2
Forget the larger lugs.You won't find them with the substandard mm inside diameter and larger outside diameter...does NOT exist!
/quote
 
First, the the studs ar NOT SUBSTANDARD! 10x1.25 is a standard metric size. 10mm is common bolt size, 1.25mm is metric 'fine' thread. the word 'substandard is misleading and wrong!
 
Second, Larger lugs DO exist. I have been a mechanic for 25 years (school trained), and there is NO safety issue with them. I will detail below.
 
BTW, I am glad you are happy with your 145/80/12's. I wasnt...
 
Moving on. During the process of converting to a 13" wheel, I compiled some information to help others along. Here it is:
 
OEM Info
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wheel = 12" x 4"
Tire = 145/80-12
Bolt pattern = 4 x 4.5" (114.3 mm)
Fender well clearance 597mm
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Car Year Pattern Stud Size Center Bore Offset
----------------------------------------------------------------------
METRO 89-97 4X114.3 10mmX1.25 59.6 35
 
EXCEL 86-94 4X114.3 12mmX1.5 67.1 46
 
New Wheel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
13" x 4.5" Steel Wheel
SILVER; 12 SLOT
Model: Hyundai Excel 86-94
 
(as you can see I used Hyundai excel rims because I got them for $10 ea, and all I had to do was paint them, surely many more will fit)
 
Most compatiable sizes
(the 155's were exact replacements I bought a while back, shown for comparison purposes only, they were Douglas brand from Walmart, they dont carry them anymore BTW) (the numbers on the far left mean nothing, it was just a list)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Size total Radius +/- clearance ea side
 
OEM 145/80/R12 537mm (21.1) +0mm 30mm
 
Mine 155/75/R12 537mm (21.1) +0mm 30mm
 
3 185/60/R13 552mm (21.7) +15mm 22.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 46.00 Price: $184.00 for 4 - Shipping $40.90 ============= $224.90
5 195/60/R13 564mm (22.2) +27mm 16.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 49.00 Price: $196.00 for 4 - Shipping $42.18 ============= $238.18
8 205/60/R13 576mm (22.7) +39mm 10.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 54.00 Price: $216.00 for 4 - Shipping $46.02 ============= $262.02
9 215/50/R13 546mm (21.5) +9mm 25.5mm Sumitomo HTR 200 (High Performance Summer) 52.00 Price: $208.00 for 4 - Shipping $43.46 ============= $251.46
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
These tires were all from tirerack. You can look around if you want... Other sizes may fit, but hitting the fenderwells is questionable, since they had to be shipped, I erred on the side of caution. BTW, I went with the 215/50/13's. They do not rub fenderwells or ANYWHERE!!
 
Anyway, heres more:
 
Stock Tire - 145/80R12 215/50R13
Section Width: 5.70 in 145 mm Section Width: 8.46 in 215 mm
Rim Diameter: 12 in 304.8 mm Rim Diameter: 13 in 330.2 mm
Rim Width Range: 4 - 4.5 in Rim Width Range: 6 - 7.5 in
Overall Diameter: 21.13 in 536.70 mm Overall Diameter: 21.46 in 545.08 mm
Sidewall Height: 4.56 in 115.82 mm Sidewall Height: 4.23 in 107.44 mm
Radius: 10.56 in 268.22 mm Radius: 10.73 in 272.54 mm
Circumference: 66.38 in 1686.0 mm Circumference: 67.41 in 1712.2 mm
Revs per Mile: 984.3 Revs per Mile: 969.2
Actual Speed: 60 mph 100 km/h Speedometer1: 59.0 mph 98.4 km/h
  Speedometer Difference: 1.557% too slow Diameter Difference: 1.54%
 
As you can see, the rim size is too small for the tires I selected, they work fine, but honestly, if I had it to do over again I would have gone with the 195's. I almost did, but I LOVE WIDE TIRES!! The rolling resistance is kind of high too, and that has hurt my gas milage, but at 57 mpg, I had some to spare
 
I used a javascript program on a website to calculate alot of this. I will post the link here, but I dont know how they are about links on this website. I really joined up here to make this post so hopefully other people wont have to do so much research like I did.
 
http://www.rims-n-tires.com/info_specs.jsp?
 
(this site seems to be down sometimes, maybe my security settings, but often I had to try back later to get there)
 
Anyway, on to the lugs. The brand is Gorilla Automotive, the style is acorn, and they are also a 'bulge seat' style, which means simply, they are one size larger in physical form only. The hex size is listed as 3/4 inch, which is a direct cross to 19mm (close enough ok?), the same hex size you would get if you had 12mm studs!!! No need to change studs the seat is .5mm larger than the hex drive, more than enough to cover the hole.
 
Here is a link to their catalog:
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/download/Gorilla_lock_nuts.pdf
 
or google 'Gorilla_lock_nuts.pdf'
 
The part number is 41118 (bulk package), 41117 (clamshell package) 41117B (bag package.
 
This is a link to where I bought mine, I got 20 for about $23 after shipping. If your buying custom stuff that has to be shipped, DO GET EXTRAS, 20+ they were only 0.82 cents each (before shipping) I couldnt find these in retail stores around town either.
 
http://www.brandsport.com/grla-41118.html
 
They fit very well, a little long, but they will STILL allow wheel covers no problem. If you dont want chrome like me, you can acid bath them first, and they will be a beautiful black chrome!! ( I have yet to do this myself)
 
Anyway, I can post pics if anyone wants, I have dozens of pictures already taken (point me to an online picture dump). I also have pics of the washers I made before the lugs arrived. This is NOT safe in my humble AND professional opinion, even though they sell expensive lug washers. I got 3/8 zinc flat washers, lift wheel off ground, center wheel with two opposing lugs, put washer on stud, use nut and torque wrench to make flat washer conical. Then repeat for other lugs. This is real dangerous IMO because people 'forget'. I was checking the torque on my lugs every 10-15 miles for about 5 days!!! What a pain!! Its really unsafe, and I dont recommend it unless:
 
1 Its very temporary
2 You never forget anything
2 You check the proper torques (with a torque wrench) very often (95-100ft lbs)
 
If you leave them like this, your damn wheel WILL fall of sometime you are least expecting, and maybe kill someone, so use the PROPER LUGS!! I only include this information for completeness.
 
It's been a great experience even for a seasoned mechanic, but I hope I have saved someone a little research. Please be safe, and change the studs, or buy the oversized nuts.
 
questions/comments?
 
Colt

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#29 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [butch22] by lilbull

Sep 21, 2009 (9:05 am)

Replying to: butch22 (Oct 01, 2008 2:51 am)

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#30 of 36 Re: Geo Metro Factory Tires [garynofishing] by cammyspradling

Nov 10, 2009 (4:11 pm)

Replying to: garynofishing (Sep 03, 2008 5:36 pm)

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#31 of 36 GEO 13 INCH TIRE SWAP by candoit

Jul 14, 2010 (8:33 am)

Replies to this message:

• colt1911 (Jul 14, 2010 5:07 pm)

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#32 of 36 Re: GEO 13 INCH TIRE SWAP [candoit] by colt1911

Jul 14, 2010 (5:07 pm)

Replying to: candoit (Jul 14, 2010 8:33 am)

Did you read this whole thread? No offense, but how much simpler can it be than a set of rims an lug nuts??
 
your way:
1. Find a Conversion or late model geo at the bone yard that hasnt been stripped already (tough)
2. buy conversion, or late model spindles ($$$)
3. buy conversion, or late model calipers ($$$)
4. buy conversion, or late model rims ($$$)
5. buy conversion, or late model tires ($$$)
6. Dont really expect to get all that for $100
7. Do alot of work changing spindels, rotors, calipers, rims, and tires
8. buy 8 studs for the rear
9. pray you have a decent drill press to precision drill the rotors for oversized studs
10. Install all this and do it your self
10. have tires mounted
 
My way:
 
1. goto: www.teamswift.net (or google) search the forum there. There is a LIST that tells you every wheel that fits the metro for nearly ANY GEO. My '94 is 105mm 4 lug I think. But you can search out any conversion you want online and make you own list. This is easier than drilling rotors!!
 
2. Go buy any set of 13 in rims that you can find off of multiple cars for multiple years. I bought 89-94 hyundai rims for $10 ea! Painted them they look great.
 
3. All the 13" rims you find will be to accomodate a 19mm stud the originals are for 17mm, so the lugs are smaller, sooooooo, go buy some online!! They are around 75 cents each, and get a few extra. look back in this thread, and you will find the link I posted. The BRAND is GORILLA. The STYLE is BULGE SEAT. the SEAT is over sized, and you need this because the hole is larger on the 13 inch rims, and your old lug nuts will slip into the hole itsself.
 
4. buy a set of tires and have them mounted.
 
5. install the tires and new lugs.
 
Just to recap, you can do all those mods with brakes, spindles, calipers, and drilling rotors, OR you can do it the EASY way:
 
1. Get a set of rims, tires to fit, and ovesized lugs
 
2.Have the tires mounted, and put them on with the new lugs
 
candoit
 
I do not mean to be harsh. What seems easy to us is not to others. I have been working cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper (30+ yrs), have a degree in it, and dont mean to be rude to you. But you have to look at the fact that buying a set of rims availible from many cars, tires and lugs to fit is pretty easy for most people. What I consider easy is replcing the V-hold chip and channel in your TV, or rebuilding a transmission or engine, or engineering an idea from scratch and fabricating parts. Most other people do not have the knowledge, tools, or time to do such things. The fact that I 'discovered' there was a lug nut that would omit the 'need' for a conversion, and made it a very strong point to come back AFTER I finished the project so that the information could help other, really solved the problem for many people. Some have even posted so in this thread. I think its commendible that you took the time to post your ideas here, but I do not agree your way is easier.

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#34 of 36 94 Geo Metro Wheel Bearings by geopete

May 20, 2009 (4:50 pm)

Replies to this message:

• drewkohls (Jul 05, 2009 8:36 pm)

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#35 of 36 Re: 94 Geo Metro Wheel Bearings [geopete] by drewkohls

Jul 05, 2009 (8:36 pm)

Replying to: geopete (May 20, 2009 4:50 pm)

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#36 of 36 94 Metro Rear Wheel Bearing by mansred

Feb 09, 2010 (12:12 pm)