Last post on Feb 09, 2010 at 11:12 AM
You are in the Chevrolet Metro/Geo Metro
What is this discussion about?
Chevrolet Metro, Geo Metro, Tires, Wheels, Hatchback
#17 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [butch22]
May 12, 2009 (5:21 pm)
Forget the larger lugs.You won't find them with the substandard mm inside diameter and larger outside diameter...does NOT exist!Take note to my other response about tire size and wheel change.You just bought a set of 13inch tires and wheels you can now resell.The whole setup is useless!Go to the Tire Rack and buy your 12 inch tires again.There are a few online company's,one from Canada that sells the 145-80R-12.Google search.make sure you don't buy the 12"boat tires,that won't work either.
#18 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [geoman2]
May 14, 2009 (2:37 pm)
also let me mention one other thing about these 13"wheels that "supposedly fit(and do not) with the 91-94 Geo Metro hatchback.Even IF you could find larger sized lug nuts that could take up all of the additional space between the outside of the lug and the larger hole diameter in the 13"wheel....forget it again!No good!Why?Simple:
The weight of that tire and other stress forces are being overly focused on the lug,because the hole diameter is too large in any 13"wheel you put on the car,especially when you hit pot holes,dips,rough roads and more.The wheel can still move in the lug area on a microscopic,level and the substandard mm studs can then bend with alot of additional stress.Think about it....if you need to find larger sized lugs to "try"and make the 13"wheel fit,then you must realize that there is something wrong here.If the 13"wheels truly fit the Metro(91-94)then you should be able to put them right on,zip your lugs on and be on your merry way!But this unfortunately is NOT the case.Put 13"wheels on yout metro hatchback,and you could be playing with an eventual large repair bill,or your life.Do what I do and order your 12"tires online.I've never failed to have a problem except once in a while with the snow tires.But then,hardly anyone orders 12"snows.I'm one of the few that oders 12"snows with studs on all 4 tires!Why?because i live in the mountains...need I say anymore?
#19 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [butch22]
Jun 02, 2009 (9:05 am)
The convertible geo metros (and a few other models of the Suzuki Swift) came originally with 13 inch rims. Larger diametrer lugs are available for the larger rims. I bought mine through Advance Auto. But you will have to remove the rear brake drums and front hubs, knock out or press out the old smaller lugs, very carefully drill the holes to accept the larger lugs, press in the larger lugs and re-install the hubs and drums. I have done this with my 90 metro hatch and am using 13 inch wheels from the convertible. There were other answers to your question that indicated that if you swap to larger wheels you will have alot of problems. That is not really true as long as you use the proper size lugs and the wheels you use have the proper offset plus you don't go crazy with tires that are to large.
#20 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [beltwaybandit]
Jun 07, 2009 (11:06 am)
No,you are the wrong one butch 22.You should read my answer alittle more closely.First of all I did NOT say anything about convertibles,you did.I said hatchback which means "Non Convertibles".The hatchbacks from 91-94 did NOT have 13"rims,only 12 inch rims.And even if some models did,this is NOT the issue.I'm speaking primarily about "my" or most other standard Metro's that only have the 12"tires and smaller lugs.Your second big mistake is not reading my answer correctly again.You Will have problems based upon the smaller diameter lugs that DO come with the 12 inch set up on the "standard" 91-94 Geo Metro hatchback,because of the slightly larger lug hole in any of the 13"wheels that correctly match the lug pattern.The additional"play"between the hole in the 13" rim and the 12"lug may not seem like much,but the tightness of fit is what is needed for a safer mount,even if it "appears" that you can tighten down heavy on the 13"rim with the smaller lug.All of the 13 inch wheels I remember correctly that I tried out matched the Geo's lug pattern absolutely perfectly but the "bottom"of the lug either "fit"inside the 13"wheel hole or just barely touched the ouside of the 13"rim hole.If the 12"lugs become worn on the edges,you'll have even a larger safety problem.Your 3rd mistake is that I did NOT deny that that you can mount 13 inch wheels on a 12 inch set up but with all the work involved with removing the hubs and drums,drilling and more,its really not worth the effort,especially if,like most people,they cannot do the work themselves and have to go to the shop.The expense involved,well,i'm sure most people will agree,would be quite large indeed!Much cheaper,better and faster to obtain 12 inch tires through the internet as I mentioned...and yes,they are still very readably available from several USA sources and Canadian internet sources.
Again,perhaps you "may"have found one specific 13"wheel that fits a more precise smaller lug diameter on the Standard Non LSI 91-94 Geo Metro Hatchback,but I seriously doubt that,since i have tried several.The larger hole diameter in the 13"wheel does pose a safety threat when mounted on the smaller lugs on my 92 Geo Metro standard Hatchback,even if its just a few hairs wider.I have discussed this issue with several professional mechanics not only at dealerships,but at various other shops and salvage yards.Yes,modifications can be made,but your conversion work was "unnecessary"if you can still find 12"tires as easy as pebbles in the road!Now,once 12 inch tires are no longer available,well then I personally would consider all the modifications you mentioned,but I just purchased 4 12" tires through the Internet 2 months ago at 38 dollars apiece and 45 dollars to ship all 4 tires.Thats only 197.00 total to arrive at my doorstep.If I go to the shop and have all that modification work done,including the fact that most shops will not allow you to go to a junk yard and bring them used parts to save money,well then,the cost will be outrageously high to do this.Bottom line....be smart,and purchase the 12"tires online not only for safety,but to save money and hard work.If you make a mistake and do not drill perfectly in the modifications,thats another problem as well...
#21 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [geoman2]
Jun 07, 2009 (12:03 pm)
Is it beltwaymechanic or butch 22?Well,I don't care,this message and the above one applies to all!
Also....to my above message.If you could somehow find a wider lug with a "precise"inner thread match to fit the smaller 12" studs...well then that still won't work that great because you still have the stud diameter problem "below" the lug and into the 13"rim hole itself!I doubt that you could find a unique lug anyway safe or unsafe that would do this anyway,since my sources are infinitely beyond any autostore computer which I found out makes plently of mistakes!We could talk about the "correct"stater replacement on the distributor when you need another one vs other type of cars,even beyond the Geo(but this is another issue).The computer,even at the dealer will give you an "exact" replacement part....but this is MANY TIMES FLAWED!Many dealership computers as well as Autozone and others do not have the "correct"updates from the databases that show "intermittant problems"associated with staters.These intermittant problems show up on the update bullitin boards sent to many dealerships,but their own computers are not always updated.For example,I had a 95 ford escort a while back.The stater went out of commission.The dealer put back in a 95 stater again,(thats stater,not a starter!)which was a mistake,because 3 months later,the stater went out of commission again!They should have read the update bullitin board showing problems with the 95 stater and put in a stater from 1997,which fit exacly and had no "intermittant"problems.Motto???Do not trust any parts store or dealership even if they say this will fit or will work,even a 13"wheel for example!!!!!I I also was given a thermostat once by autozone and national and advance auto parts that showed the supposed perfect replacement for my 92 Geo Metro.Well...the computer in all 3 stores was INCORRECT!!!!!My model requires a black rubberized gasket that fits around the "edge"of the thermostat,not on the bottom of the thermostat,so they were all wrong!I had to go to the dealer and spend 30 dollars for the correct thermostat!Now,getting back to the wheel problems....I had a friend 3 years ago that simply placed what appeared to be a well fitting 13" rim on his 91 Geo metro hatchback,until he hit a few potholes,did a couple of fast swings around some sharp corners in the road and his wheel began to wobble violently.He found out that there was NOTHING wrong in his suspension,he thought he broke something!No,it was the lug vs hole problem again.Now maybe if he was a nice old lady that drove around 25 MPH all the time and drove on all smooth roads,he would not have ever noticed a problem,but then we are not all old ladies driving 25 MPH are we?The day I trust slapping on a 13"rim simply based upon the fact that the "holes"line up perfectly or because some auto parts store says its "ok"is the day I may very well lose control of that tire and go under a semi crushing me to a thin piece of scrap metal.Think what you want my friend,but i have personally observed otherwise and contrary to what you have said.
#23 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [geoman2]
Jun 07, 2009 (1:33 pm)
so Butch22...Don't tell me about my mistakes,I have not made any but you have made plenty!
1.Not finding 12"tires on the internet or even looking on the internet...(not too smart on your part!)
2.Doing all those unnecessary conversions and all that work...Not too smart!
3.trying to tell me about the "convertibles"having 13 inch tires when the discussion was about 91-94 hatchbacks...NOT convertibles which are still 12",not 13"!Very unsmart!
4.believing that parts stores will give you the correct fit simply because their computer says so...triply unsmart!!!
5.and not admitting or correcting your mistakes...quadruple unsmart!!!!!!!!!
#24 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [geoman2]
Jun 07, 2009 (3:05 pm)
also,butch22,I have tried the susuki wheels on my 92 Geo metro hatchback,I believe the salvage yard originally said that the 95 13" wheels would fit.Although i'm not sure of the year anymore.Well,those wheels,...the same ones i'm sure YOU are talking about,did fit and matched up "almost"perfectly!The key was "almost!"
Again,the holes matched to the 92 Geo's studs,but as I told you before...there was too much play between the stud and the hole in the 13" susuki wheel making it somewhat unsafe.So,i'm calling you a liar to your face!
And this you can add to all your other mistakes!
#25 of 36 Re: Geo Metro lug nuts [geoman2]
Jun 08, 2009 (4:57 am)
My dear Geoman2. I will list the specific steps and part numbers to clarify what I was trying to explain in my earlier post. If you could read the entire thing I am sure you will see that I have considered how to completely and safely accomplish the proper swap of 13 inch geo wheels on to a geo that came standard with the 12 inch wheels. . . . The 13 inch wheels that come standard on a Geo convertible will (and do) properly and exactly fit a geo hatchback that came with the 12 inch wheels IF YOU DO THE FOLLOWING.
Step 1 - Remove the front hubs and the rear drums.
Step 2 - Remove the studs. Some people call wheel studs "lugs." (Press or knock them out.)
Step 3 - Purchase the studs that fit the 13 inch wheels - There are two different lengths to fit the front and the rear. AutoZone.com lists the following parts - Front- Dorman/wheel stud part number 610-334.1 and Rear- Dorman/Wheel stud part number 610.336.1. These are the correct diameter and length to properly fit the geo convertible 13 inch wheels. They are size M12-1.25 thread.
Step 4 - carefully drill the holes in the hubs and drums to a larger size to accept the larger wheel studs. If you don't have the correct equipment like a drill press and proper size drill bits then go to a machine shop and have the holes enlarged professionally.
Step 5 - press the larger studs into the holes in the hubs and drums.
Step 6 - Purchase the correct wheel nuts. (Some people call them "lug nuts.") Autozone.com lists them as Dorman/Wheel Nut part number 611.064.1 (same size front and rear.)
Step 7 - reinstall the front hubs and rear drums.
Step 8 - install the 13 inch geo convertible wheels on the new larger studs on the geo hatchback.
If the person considering this swap would rather get the parts from NAPA look for part numbers 6411534, 6413158 and 6413144.
This works. It is 100% as safe as using the production 12 inch wheels and I can assure you that it can be done. I have done this job. I have a 90 geo hatchback in my garage with the properly fitted 13 inch convertible wheels.
Why you feel compelled to call me a liar to my face is sad and puzzling. I offer this information based on experience and the facts can be verified. I am not simply throwing out unsubstantiated opinions.
Jun 08, 2009 (12:17 pm)
Let's back off the personal edge on thing before they get too sharp. Thanks!