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Automotive News & Views How The 35 mpg Law By 2020 Will Affect The Cars We Will Drive
480 messages, Last post on May 13, 2008 at 2:04 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2008 2:42 pm) Camry: 21/31 Camry Hybrid: 33/34 (first one I've seen that does better highway...by ONE MPG) 3 MPG ain't much Altima: 23/31 Altima Hybrid: 35/33 2 MPG difference. Ford Escape i4: 20/26 Ford Escape Hybrid: 34/30 4 MPG difference...that one actually impresses me a bit...if only the Escape wasn't such a rotten vehicle.  The advantages of a hybrid on the highway are minimal. If one does a lot of city driving then it makes a huge difference, and I recommend anyone who does a lot of city driving consider a hybrid (a REAL hybrid, not a GM, heh). Highway is a different story, and while 4 MPG begins to impress me, the gas savings is not enough to offset the additional cost of buying a hybrid over a standard ICE drivetrain (which tends to be between $2000 and $5000, depending on model and trim level). Me I drive 95% highway. I also hate the Escape, so I have to think about whether I'll save enough on gas to offset the additional cost of driving a hybrid, to save 2 MPGs. Or I could spend even LESS, buy an Elantra or Corolla, and get the same highway mileage I'd get in a Camry Hybrid or Altima Hybrid, without having to spend $25k+.  Like I said, hybrids aren't the right answer for the highway.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 02, 2008 3:16 pm) Maybe in your own personal belief set, sure. No one car is perfect for every situation ever devised. But the VAST MAJORITY of cars are more than "hwy only" vehicle. As a combined traffic vehicle, be it 95% urban and 5% rural or reversed, no gasoline-only car of comparable weight and features does as well as the TCH in the OVERALL MPG department. |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 02, 2008 1:08 pm) Take the EPA gasser values then increase the highway driving figure by 10% increase the city driving figure by 50-60% That's the hybrid EPA values. Camry 4c gasser 21 / 31 / 25 Camry hybrid..... 33 / 34 / 34 All the hybrids get about 10% better fuel economy on the Highway than the non-hybrid versions. How can anyone complain about this? My Prius gets 48 mpg all day long in Hwy driving conditions. That's a huge improvement over my previous 4 Camry's ( 32-34 mpg Hwy ). You might want to rethink your prejudices.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 02, 2008 4:02 pm) Though I do happen to like the Prius as a general motor vehicle...as a rule, I prefer hatchbacks. But in most cases, for me, a hybrid isn't worth the cost over and above the ICE model, or the next-size-down vehicle (which these days have the interior volume of midsize cars anyway). Lots of people do lots of highway driving, especially here in NY State. So far, the hybrid designs have been primarily focused on city mileage, because they were designed in Japan, and that's the majority of the driving that occurs there. Fair enough. But as someone said before, some additional battery capacity would be helpful in increasing the highway MPGs....really, there would have to be a 5-6 MPG increase at minimum on the highway for it to start being worth it.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 02, 2008 4:40 pm) Yes a hybrid Camry costs more than a Corolla and a Corolla costs more than a 97 Taurus and a 97 Taurus costs more than a bicycle. All 4 get one from A to B. Nothing else can be said except that one can't compare any of these rationally because the bicycle always wins. They are all apples, oranges, pears and bananas. One can compare non-equal options but at some point the comparer draws a line and says 'Nothing smaller/worse/more basic than So the first question is where does each of us draw that lower limit line? Someone who envisions himself as a $30000 buyer will find all the Prius' and Corollas as too basic. Thus since there is no absolute comparativeness all that can be said is that the vehicles have to be made roughly equivalent in sizes, options, trims and then compared. The correct non-hybrid comparative is the Matrix. Both are 5 door hatches with roughly the same equipment. You will find that if you do a comparo between the Matrix and the Prius that the Prius comes out costing less in every combination from 2 yrs to 15 yrs. However for all of us bicycles are always better options for fuel economy.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 02, 2008 5:19 pm) My lower limit is the MB ML though I prefer the GL size for cargo. A Trailblazer is fine for vacation rental. I would even consider an Acadia/Enclave as a rental vehicle. I think the Pilot/Highlander are just a bit cramped for me. These are vehicles I would take on a long trip. I can drive most anything to the store and usually do. Heck I drive around mostly in my beater 99 Ford Ranger. I sure would not head to AZ in it. I also drive the LS400 just because it is there and it runs. Mostly trips to town, nothing over 30 miles as it is old and who knows what might decide to quit working with a 19 year old vehicle. I will be curious to see how many 19 year old Prius are still running good.
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 02, 2008 6:51 pm)  ..at that point I should have about 750,000 miles on mine..
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 02, 2008 8:25 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 02, 2008 9:41 pm) I do about 30K miles a year, of which probably 5K or so are job-related, I get reimbursed for those. I am frequently needed for babysitting and transportation for nieces and nephews in the next county, which is why I have sworn my next car will be 50 mpg. But it's got to have a stick, none of this Prius business for me. Whether it's the new CAFE regs or the gas prices that spur automakers to get off their butts and give us more fuel-efficient automotive options, I hope they do it SOON.
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Replying to: nippononly (Apr 03, 2008 7:21 am) Don't hold your breath. As long as there are warring entities in the State and Federal government, we will not see significant increases in MPG. You getting 50 MPG will decrease the taxes for Ahnold and his cronies in Sacramento to waste. I think they are proposing an additional 9 cent tax increase on the highest gas tax in the USA. That will bring us up to about 71 cents on gas and 80 cents on diesel. Then by the time Moonbeam sues the automakers for their contribution to CO2 a Toyota Yaris will cost $30k.If you could find a nice clean 1988 CRX HF you could get your 50 MPG and repairs would not break the bank. All this worthless legislation is pushing folks to repair older less expensive cars and trucks. You can put a brand new engine and transmission in a 1990 Civc for the price of one hybrid battery pack. Woe is you if the HSD/PSD goes out in your Prius. That is a cool $10 grand.
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Automotive News & Views How The 35 mpg Law By 2020 Will Affect The Cars We Will Drive
