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Automotive News & Views How The 35 mpg Law By 2020 Will Affect The Cars We Will Drive
480 messages, Last post on May 13, 2008 at 2:04 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2008 7:05 am) To me they are all flaky. When I see hybrids on the road with their original batteries in good condition after 15 years of use. I may change my thinking. After 8 years a vehicle should just be broken in good. Not many 8 year old hybrids to inspect. An EV has a different set of criteria. You expect the battery to diminish as part of the usage. So when you purchase you calculate how many miles you will get before the battery needs replacing. Then you can use that figure for cost per mile analysis. With hybrids the battery issue is more of an unknown as the dealer is not going to tell you how far it has deteriorated after 5-10-15 years. One day you wake up and you have a dead battery. If you are lucky it is covered by the CARB mandated warranty. No one is talking about the Li-Ion shelf life that is very short. Probably why they were not used in any of the hybrids to date.
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 02, 2008 9:32 am)
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California mandate says, I believe, is that the fleet must improve by 30% initially. Quit selling the 30% worst gas guzzlers (that would be all the full-size trucks with monster-size gas motors) and replace them with diesels (which are legal for all these big trucks, because of their GVWR), and you would go a long way towards meeting the California goal without spending one R&D dollar. Next, spend a few dollars following the lead of the Europeans and Honda, and develop 50-state emissions-compliant diesels for the half-ton pick-ups, something which will sell like gangbusters because of all the gas savings, and you have just solved the problem for the next decade. I needn't even say this, really, because Ford and GM are way ahead of me there, and all the other big automakers have diesels overseas that they can bring to bear in 50-state tune. And who knows, if we end up with a hybrid or two along the way, especially a DIESEL hybrid, we will wind up saving a LOT of gas money. |
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2008 9:39 am)
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 02, 2008 10:18 am) Dell does sell quite a few replacement batteries for their laptops; even though the average laptop is basically a throw-away item in a few years. I know my Casio solar watch has a rechargeable battery which also needs periodic replacement according to the manual. |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 02, 2008 10:18 am) That doesn't make hybrids "flaky." Definition of flaky from dictionary.com: "...A system that is flaky is working, sort of - enough that you are tempted to try to use it - but fails frequently enough that the odds in favor of finishing what you start are low...." Hybrid cars and trucks to date have been VERY reliable as a whole. And as for your thought "hybrids are the absolute WORST thing for the highway." - I'm not sure where you got that idea, but my personal experience and knowledge of hybrids disputes that statement. I have owned two hybrid cars: a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid and a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. Both have achieved great highway numbers for their class. My best hwy tank on my HCH was 56.4 miles per gallon, and my best hwy tank on my TCH has been right around 40 MPG. For cars in their size and equipment level, that's pretty darn good. No other car the USA the size of the TCH (in it's price range) can equal that. Maybe the new Passat diesel when it hits the USA will be able to do that - we shall see.
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2008 12:35 pm) Hybrids were designed for city driving...that's where their biggest impact as far as fuel savings are. On the highway the difference is comparatively low...in fact, every hybrid out there gets better mileage city than highway. |
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2008 12:35 pm) I am not familiar with the hybrid trucks you are referring to. 8 years is not nearly long enough to determine longterm reliability. Especially for those of us that put less than 10k miles per year. The Passat Wagon TDIs would match the TCH very well. With a lot more luggage space. They were sold in most of the USA until 2006. Even in CA till 2004. So they are out there in the hands of those lucky enough to get one. I made 17.5 cents per mile profit driving my Passat for 13 months. Try that with any hybrid you like. |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Apr 02, 2008 1:08 pm) The standard, ICE-only Camry cannot touch the TCH in city, hwy or overall mileage. Whatever you'd like to think, no 2007 Camry I know about can average 35 MPG combined like my TCH has in the 21 months I have owned it. That extra MPG is why I bought the hybrid and not the XLE. Hybrids might have "been designed" for optimizing city mileage, but they do darn well on the open road too.
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Replying to: larsb (Apr 02, 2008 2:42 pm) In the city, of course, it is no contest, the hybrid WINS. And as a running average, I would imagine the hybrid would win most of the time, although results could be close depending on how much of your driving was highway. What they need to do next is increase the capacity of the battery packs in hybrids A LOT, so that the electrics can do more of the work even at high speeds. |
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Automotive News & Views How The 35 mpg Law By 2020 Will Affect The Cars We Will Drive
