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How The 35 mpg Law By 2020 Will Affect The Cars We Will Drive

538 messages,  Last post on Jul 31, 2008 at 6:28 AM

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#149 of 538
Re: Toyota [nippononly] by gagrice
Jan 14, 2008 (10:00 am)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 14, 2008 7:39 am)

I think Toyota and GM are putting too much emphasis on a BIG break in battery technology that will make the PHEVs practical. If they had spent the money on clean diesel that they have wasted on hybrids we would not be waiting and waiting for the arrival of diesels that are easily pushed to 35 MPG across the fleet. The rest of the world have driven around in midsized diesel PU trucks getting 40+ MPG for decades. We are still stuck with these same PU trucks lucky to break 20 MPG average. The one consolation is our gas guzzling PU trucks will get us from 0-60 faster than their fuel sipping PU trucks.
 
PS
Latest someone posted here is Toyota is waffling on the Plug in Prius anytime before 2011.
#150 of 538
Re: Still we have [occupant1] by rick_wally
Jan 16, 2008 (1:47 pm)
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Replying to: occupant1 (Dec 28, 2007 9:07 pm)

I have a 1979 F150 4x4 with a 400cid and a 4 spd. I get 8 mpg and it is all tuned up. New HEI and new carb. It is a sweet truck none-the-less. The good news I only drive it when I NEED a truck. Not like these wannabees out there driving trucks as commuter cars because they fall short in other areas.
#151 of 538
Re: Still we have [rick_wally] by highmiler650
Jan 16, 2008 (2:29 pm)
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Replying to: rick_wally (Jan 16, 2008 1:47 pm)

Yes, no matter how economical the new car or truck, there is always the purchase price or monthly payments that come with it.
 
It is almost always cheaper to keep an older vehicle on the road, if you don't drive too many miles per month.
 
I am getting tired of my 1998 Chevrolet K1500 with almost 100k miles but it is still running like new so I''ll keep it until it falls apart, which is unlikely since I maintain it properly.
#152 of 538
Re: raising cafe [walterquint] by larsb
Jan 17, 2008 (6:41 am)
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Replying to: walterquint (Dec 23, 2007 5:23 pm)

The only reason it is met with resistance is that WE, the BUYING PUBLIC, have shown the car companies that we would rather pay $2300 for chrome spinner wheels that $1000 for fuel mileage improvements and/or pollution-reducing hardware.
 
WE, the buyers who refuse to put our money where it should be put, are the problem.
#153 of 538
Re: King Harald at Hastings (dtownfb) [texases] by larsb
Jan 17, 2008 (6:52 am)
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Replying to: texases (Dec 25, 2007 7:12 pm)

Union of Concerned Scientists re-designed a Ford Explorer and showed it would be easy and relatively cheap to move it from a 21 MPG vehicle to a 37 MPG vehicle. See details here:
 
link title
 
What this proves is that if car companies REALLY, REALLY put their engineers to work and REALLY mandated to them that we wanted higher mileage vehicles with similar or better safety and performance, it CAN be done.
 
Questions remain: How much extra to they charge, and are WE the buying public willing to pay extra for it......................??????????????????
#154 of 538
Re: King Harald at Hastings (dtownfb) [larsb] by nippononly
Jan 17, 2008 (7:09 am)
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 17, 2008 6:52 am)

From the article you linked:
 
"As a result, the average light truck’s fuel economy
was about 30 percent lower than the average
car in 2002 (Figure ES-1). This translates into
nearly $3,200 more spent on gasoline over the
truck’s life, assuming a conservative gas price of
$1.40 per gallon"
 
Whoa! Gas as we know is WELL above $1.40/gallon. At $2.80/gallon, which is still lower than what it actually sells for today (and likely in the future), the average truck/SUV owner will spend $6400 more than the average car owner on gas over the car's life. That's a CHUNK of change....
#155 of 538
Re: King Harald at Hastings (dtownfb) [larsb] by tpe
Jan 17, 2008 (7:52 am)
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 17, 2008 6:52 am)

Union of Concerned Scientists re-designed a Ford Explorer and showed it would be easy and relatively cheap to move it from a 21 MPG vehicle to a 37 MPG vehicle. See details here:
 
That article stated an mpg improvement from 21 to 27.8 mpg, not 37 mpg. Still impressive. It also stated that one of the ways this was accomplished was through a better engine. That's kind of vague. The article claimed that this more efficient vehicle had improved hauling capacity. I don't see how you can accomplish this with a less powerful engine. I think the American public would really be interested in this "better engine" if it provided significantly higher mpg with no sacrifice in power.
#156 of 538
Re: King Harald at Hastings (dtownfb) [tpe] by larsb
Jan 17, 2008 (8:02 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 17, 2008 7:52 am)

Look at the last page, the chart for the three vehicles. The XSE has a 36.3 CAFE rating. The original XLT has 21.2 - an increase of of 71 percent.
#157 of 538
Re: King Harald at Hastings (dtownfb) [tpe] by nippononly
Jan 17, 2008 (8:31 am)
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 17, 2008 7:52 am)

The 27 mpg Explorer has a 3.1L VTEC V-6. The 4.0 in the real Explorer for so long is a super-low-tech engine by comparison. And I do not believe the 3.1 VTEC would improve hauling-towing capacity. But I do believe it would maintain hp while providing much better gas mileage.
 
The XSE making 36 mpg in the UCS example was a 4-cylinder engine, wasn't it? I am sure the automakers could achieve huge fuel economy improvements in most vehicles out there, but the vehicles would be a lot slower as a consequence. And in speed-crazy America, it's a hard sell to improve a vehicle but make it slower at the same time....
#158 of 538
Re: King Harald at Hastings (dtownfb) [nippononly] by larsb
Jan 17, 2008 (8:37 am)
Reply

Replying to: nippononly (Jan 17, 2008 8:31 am)

It was a 6-cylinder engine making the exact same 0-60 time as the 4 liter engine in the XLT.
 
Read the PDF file again and look at the last charts on the last page.

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