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Automotive News & Views How The 35 mpg Law By 2020 Will Affect The Cars We Will Drive
538 messages, Last post on Jul 31, 2008 at 6:28 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: smithed (Dec 26, 2007 7:24 am) It's also hilarious to see the big macho American male talk about how we can't function without behemoths that can "haul" and "tow". If you look at the percentage of trucks that EVER haul or tow anything, it would be like 5% I'm guessing. Manufacturers could keep building the monsters for those 5%, but the rest of us would figure out how to get the job done economically. It was also interesting to see that Australia and New Zealand have no behemoth trucks either. Most passenger cars have bumper hitches on the rear, and when people need to haul something, they get out their trailers for that once a year haul. Most cars the size of an Accord can easily pull/haul their "caravans" (small RVs). Face it... Americans have been buying big trucks and SUVs because they're the best value for the money, and there isn't anything else to pick from... not because they need to haul and tow. Even now I could go out and buy 20 full size trucks that cost less than my new Tacoma did, but I already know from experience that the Tacoma will cost me less to own because it gets better mileage and has better resale value. Actually much of Europe (especially Italy) is functioning with scooters for transportation. It was hilarious to be sitting on a tour bus stuck in traffic, and watch them zip in and out of traffic while we went NOWHERE. And to answer the safety question... when vehicles can't go more than 30 MPH, it's easy for a scooter to get out of their way. America is just way behind the learning curve. When low sulphur diesel gets here, you're going to see a new wave of smaller vehicles (already available and in use elsewhere in the world) being unloaded at our ports. As soon as a diesel Tacoma (HILUX) gets here, I'll be first in line.
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Replying to: superglide (Dec 28, 2007 3:44 pm)  You might have to fight gagrice for the first one.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 28, 2007 4:13 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Dec 28, 2007 4:24 pm)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 28, 2007 4:55 pm) I'm not sure what you mean by that comment. I'll admit that I supported Bush in 2000. I'm a slow learner but 7 years later he's clearly established himself as an idiot. But in terms of CAFE I don't think he can be attacked. The previous, Clinton, administration certainly didn't do anything to increase CAFE despite the fact that this was the heyday of SUVs where the domestics were actually profitable. IMO, when Bush leaves office his administration will rightfully be criticized for it's foreign policy but when it comes to environmental issues I think they can legitimately claim to be no worse than their predecessors.
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Replying to: tpe (Dec 28, 2007 3:02 pm) I know that. It was bumpy in Post 126 who was saying that the manufacturers could make trucks that got that. I was simply stating that if a company like Ford which is so heavily reliant on trucks and has a shrinking car base couldn't get to 35mpg. Say they're 80% F-series/Explorers and 20% cars. If Ford decided to play games with their engines, or sell vehicles without engines, and refer you to a 3rd-party engine shop... There would be a lot of loopholes, just like the tax-code. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Dec 18, 2007 1:47 pm) I drive a 1971 model Ford 3/4 ton truck with a 360cid gas V8, 4-speed stick, and a 4.10:1 rear axle. This engine consumes a lot of gas and a little oil. I average 14.3mpg in this truck and it does everything I ask it to. A new 3/4 ton truck with an equivalent powertrain (F250 Super Duty, 5.4/6-speed, 4.10 axle) would get about the same mileage. So there's no sense spending $25K to buy a new one. I'd rather keep mine in tune and do without a giant car payment. However, a lot of these older truck owners are sick of getting low to mid teens for fuel mileage and some of them have gone out and bought used stepvans with 4-cylinder Cummins diesels in them to swap into their pickups. They can usually buy the old bread/snack vans for about the scrap value of the aluminum body. Then they've got a free engine to put in their truck. Most of these swapped trucks now acheive mid-20s for mileage and one guy with a half ton late 70s Chevy is boasting about 33-34 on the highway, even with a non-overdrive 3-speed automatic. 105hp but well over 200lbs torque, it's enough for a basic truck to get work done and even makes a better commuter than a small sedan with automatic (most are rated high 20s-low 30s). When my truck's engine decides to use as much oil as gas, it'll come out and get replaced with a small diesel like the Cummins 4-cylinder. I could care less about horsepower and speed, and the torque is more than enough to push the 3900lb beast around the ranch and get me to town and back when I need to. A 5-speed transmission from a 90s Ford 3/4 ton would stretch the fuel money even more. And since I have to change out the fuel tank anyway, I can take the one out of the cab and just put two tanks under the bed, doubling my range and eliminating a fire hazard all in one step. The most difficult parts of the conversion are splicing up the wiring harness and finding the right bellhousing adapter to whatever transmission you want to use. Most of these bread vans use a GM Turbo 400 automatic, which is great for say, a Suburban. But there are companies out there who can make a bellhousing for darn near any transmission out there. One guy has one of these diesels in an old Studebaker pickup and he got a bellhousing for his 3-speed manual for less than $500, brand new, freshly cast. I'll shoot for that 35mpg mark when I build a half-ton pickup, but if I can average 25mpg with this setup in my 3/4 ton truck, I'll be plenty happy. If I manage it, my truck will get better mileage than my wife's Taurus! |
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Replying to: tpe (Dec 28, 2007 5:20 pm) But to his credit and for very valid reasons IMO this new CAFE 35 was a key part of his State of the Union Message this year. After the Senate passed it's version before the summer recess and the House began dragging it's feet so that it appeared that nothing would get done in 2007 the Bush Administration stated that if the House didn't get off their fat butts the Executive would instruct the NHTSA to impose something unilaterally. Legal? eh? But it did light a fire in the House. |
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Replying to: occupant1 (Dec 28, 2007 9:07 pm) |
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Replying to: occupant1 (Dec 28, 2007 9:07 pm) My only comment is that having owned an '00 ton 1/2 Silverado X-Cab, their curb-wt was 4,800 Lb. I believe most 3/4 ton would be breaking 5,000 Lb. So I just don't see anything less than 3.5 or 4.0 L diesels moving them; unless you have some really good turbo setup on them. And if you go putting a lot of aluminum and carbon fiber on these trucks to reduce weight, and expensive engines, you'll simply drive the market away from buying new, and as I implied the aftermarket will explode with fixing up older trucks; or doing kit-trucks.
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